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FV and FVP Forum > Status

Quiet here lately! Me, I have been off the system for a bit. Several tasks have been up in the last week that were of such high import that I was motivated to work those and couldn't think to work other tasks. When things came up, I did them on the spot and got back to my focus. Less important stuff got written down and ignored.

I feel like I got a lot done, although it's not a balanced way of working. Over time the ignored stuff will get to be troublesome, and then (if not sooner) I shall return to the system.

In any event, I feel like in general FV is more usable if I'm very dextrous in handling the selected list. I may work the latest two or three tasks, but then rather than finish the selection I go back to the tasks I was working on and do some more, or maybe select a few new items to consider. This mode may take some time to reach the head of the list, but it allows a lot of focus on the important tasks with incidental breaks for other stuff.
June 10, 2012 at 18:40 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I had a couple of days like that this past week. I didn't have scheduled events and didn't block time for those time-critical projects, but didn't rely on the list to get them done either. They were what I was doing most of the time. During breaks from them, I worked my list a little and handled a couple of things as they came up. As I wrapped up these projects, I moved smoothly back into working the list in the normal fashion.

I worked pretty well for me.
June 11, 2012 at 4:37 | Registered CommenterMartyH
Currently working with an accountability partner (found each other on the GTD board) and returned to T. Robbins RPM program. I had success with RPM last year, and when looking back, discovered I hit a few a major targets goals.

Tools: M-Arc w/ self-designed forms.
June 11, 2012 at 13:45 | Registered Commenteravrum
I, too, just came off a week where I barely touched the list except for cycling through a bunch of really critical stuff at the end (the good news is that the paper I was revising was accepted, yay!). As I focused on the paper, a lot of things got crossed off simply by putting a timed reminder in my calendar for after the paper deadline. Those things are now cycling back into the list as the reminders pop up. I haven't had much trouble getting back into the flow of working the whole list.

I've also been keeping some stats on longevity of pages (definitely went up during the paper crunch) and number of items in the list at the end of every day that I'll post once I have a more reasonable amount of data.
June 12, 2012 at 16:35 | Unregistered CommenterSarah
My schedule has been calling all the shots since mid-May. I just traveled for a high school reunion, returned home and prepared to lead a youth summer camp, now leading the camp for the rest of this week. Soon after that, I have an extended road trip.

So there's been little need for a list, but when there's a lull, I pull it out and knock out some stuff. Before the road trip, I will probably use it to wrap up some end-month items in advance so that they won't nag me on the trip.

Still in FV and still liking it. The one change I am contemplating is to start a fresh list, since I am still encumbered by the legacy tasks from my old AF/DWM list. I never did start fresh, and those chains can take a long time to build with 350+ items, if my mind is wandering. Though I know Seraphim would not be impressed!

It's like Mark said in the instructions: "FV is resilient but at this point you are not!" (paraphrasing). I may not have been the best candidate to start with hundreds of legacy items, but ... lesson learned.
June 13, 2012 at 2:57 | Registered CommenterBernie
<< I never did start fresh, and those chains can take a long time to build with 350+ items >>

I did start gradually, getting old stuff into my EN FV list. I started with about 100 items in March and now it have climbed to 200+. There are about 50+ items still on my old stuff list.

I'm now making two types of scanning to build the chains ...
(1) Quick scan, after selecting the oldest item, I would scan/select the items on screen just by eye, then move to next screen, repeat until screen with the newest item. Take about 1 or 2 minutes. I usually use this method for my first scan of the day, where I'm anxious to get started on the urgent items.
(2) More thorough scan, after selecting the oldest item, I would move/select mouse cursor through each item on the screen, then only move to next screen, repeat until screen with newest item. Take about 5-10minutes.
June 13, 2012 at 11:26 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
I was sick for over a week and didn't much touch my list. When I started back up again, after processing my inboxes I had over 1500 items on my list, and it felt old and irrelevant. So I declared a backlog and started over. Already up to 100 items but it is nice to start fresh.
June 14, 2012 at 22:05 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Back in FV mode. Returning after a brief absence unveils a host of highly pressing issues which weren't even ready for work before. All good stuff, and I'm glad I can apply FV to get through those in coherent fashion. I don't think any of the AF versions are up to handling this situation like FV is.

Seraphim, I agree with taking the backlog like you did. To prevent that, I'm thinking we need to regularly scan through on a deleting binge. Delete stuff that doesn't really matter, or that doesn't need action for a while, or that you will surely remember when the time comes, or that interferes with the priority work that you really want to focus on, or that while it seems important you won't ever really want to do and you could live without it being done until it's needed.
June 15, 2012 at 20:00 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Yes, I'm regularly scanning through and removing all Type 3 activities and putting them on a separate list to bring to my FV list one at a time.

http://www.markforster.net/blog/2008/3/1/dealing-with-projects-that-dont-have-a-deadline.html

<<we need to regularly scan through on a deleting binge. Delete stuff that doesn't really matter, or that doesn't need action for a while, or that you will surely remember when the time comes, or that interferes with the priority work that you really want to focus on, or that while it seems important you won't ever really want to do and you could live without it being done until it's needed.>>
June 22, 2012 at 11:43 | Unregistered Commenterteckwyn
As promised... here's what my list has been looking like (in terms of numbers anyway) lately. I attribute some of the recent growth to switching to Bernie's idea of processing the whole book using FV, rather than just things that are labelled as "tasks".

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArwYp6ayPngMdEE2aGN2NkMzZm1ndnAwbW1zT0JydlE
June 29, 2012 at 15:37 | Unregistered CommenterSarah
After getting sick, declaring a backlog, and starting over with a new FV list, as I described on my post above (June 14th), I then went on vacation, and am now back, and finding that I don't want to do FV anymore. Not sure why. I guess I just don't see a load-balancing mechanism in FV, and am afraid of my list growing out of control. FV has so many nice features, but I am feeling drawn toward DIT for some reason. I don't know where I'll land. Maybe back with FV, maybe AF1, maybe DIT, maybe a Gerry-esque approach, maybe some combination.

I still manage my podcasts on my iPod using a DWM approach - if I haven't finished a podcast in two weeks, it disappears. And I manage many project lists with an AF1-like approach. Maybe I'll come up with some combination.
June 29, 2012 at 21:12 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
I know your "some reason" for DIT because I feel it too. Basically, FV asks you to preselect a bunch of tasks, but if the list is long you end up precommitting yourself to more than a day's work, which is slightly overwhelming. Thus DIT feels better because it commits less. (Even if FV commits you to less than a day's work, it's not all the same things you would have chosen otherwise, and so you feel behind on some things.) I'm going to persist with FV though to see whether condensing the list resolves the problem. I expect it will.
June 29, 2012 at 21:21 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Hi Alan:

> but if the list is long you end up precommitting yourself to more than a day's work

2 possible solutions:
- make good use of 'the question'; if you ask yourself 'what do I want to do before X' and already your list is quite long, the answer is probably 'nothing', because it will make your list far too long
- work in short bursts on each task, e.g. 5 to 15 minutes; use a timer to achieve this; if you only work for 5 minutes on each item, even a long list can easily be finished in 1 day
July 1, 2012 at 10:28 | Unregistered CommenterThorin
<<Maybe I'll come up with some combination.>>

That's the place I find myself time and again.
July 1, 2012 at 12:45 | Registered Commenteravrum
Alan - After allowing my thoughts to percolate, here are some reasons I am resisting FV:

- The preselected chain has no correlation to what I need to get done today. True, the preselected chain is a closed list, with all the general advantages of closed lists. But it does't necessarily correspond with what I need to get done today. Sometimes, I'd work through 1-2 chains in one day. Other times, I'd have the same chain persisting for days or even weeks, and I'd add items to it whenever I'd been away for awhile. This was a key feature for helping me deal with new urgent items, but it also turned the closed list into an open list, and completey disconnected the current chain from any sense of "this is what I need to get done today".

- FV does not regulate my overall commitments. The list simply grows and does not mechanically arrive at an equilibrium. The only system I know that DOES do this is DWM - which Mark equated to DIT at some point. Personally I need a feature like that. During "normal" times I can use any system and arrive at an equilibrium on my own, using my own judgement and weeding my list, etc. But this requires a conscious effort, and it becomes unworkable during "crunch" times.

I'm trying something like DIT right now but applying some concepts borrowed from AF1 and FV while processing my DIT pages. Stumbling around with nothing really to report yet. Trying to watch very carefully what actually ends up on my DIT list. Plusses: I have only a few things to focus on each day. Minusses: No integrated catch-all, and no percolation/filtering in place yet. I like AF1 and FV and DWM because they are catch-alls and everything gets processed automatically. I'm trying to figure out a way to integrate these ideas into DIT without getting quite so mechanical as DWM.
July 2, 2012 at 1:55 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Hi
I understand the issues around FV and crunch times. I live in a corporate environment where there are large numbers of requests to do things with little notice compounded by an excess of meetings. Currently I still find FV works for me but the key for me is perspective
Each day I clear the decks first thing and briefly review every item on the full fv list as a "jogger" / "refresher". I check my diary for amount of available time and also knowledge of any key me stones due or imminent. This is all about putting context/ a sense of perspective around the days work
Only then do I start selecting a chain to work on. The "what do I Want to do before x" question is then answered in light of the days context and time available. The subconscious mind lets me know what to do or where there are friction points
I then plod on as per normal FV practice using pomodoro / decrement inv time slots to determine the time spent on each. For critical project items I either allocate specific non discretionary time slots or give a specialcase duration of 40 mins (to allow full focus/flow)
It's not perfect but seems to be working quite well
So in summary
1) get the context re task, time, deadlines, critical items. Via a quick daily review
2) use FV as described by Mark
3) use a timer to crack the whip when there's just too much going on
4) if nec give key project items a little extra time to permit "flow"
5) at least a couple of times a week perform an alt-FV pass to deal with resistant items

Anyway I thought I'd share the above in case it helps
Grik
July 2, 2012 at 9:58 | Unregistered CommenterGrik
Agree with Grik, in concept. The question, "what do i want to do before X" needs to be contextualized to the time frame we're dealing with. The first X might not be something you want to do at all, but I propose things which have no relevance today ought not be added to the list as they really don't fit the "want" part of the question. Given that you will be doing X today (it's selected), do you want to do Y before X? The answer is no, because you believe there are other things you want to do today and Y doesn't belong.

Later having achieved some important things for today you might select the item you skipped before because the pressure is down and Y seems now like a fine thing to start today.
July 2, 2012 at 14:39 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I'm trying a very small variant of FV that seems to be giving me what I want: a DIT-like focus on "here is what I must get done today".

You can do it like this, starting with a standard FV setup:

- Use standard FV setup.

- When you start the day, draw a line at the end of your list.

- Everything new (or re-entered) goes after the line.

- When you are making your preselection, stop scanning when you get to the line. This is optional - you can go forward if you want, especially if there is some new urgent thing that's bothering you. But as a general rule, stop at the line.

- Make it your goal to clear everything above the line by the end of the day. But if you don't, it will still be waiting for you the next day. If the backlog of previous day's items gets too big, just "declare a backlog" and/or delete the whole lot.
July 5, 2012 at 18:10 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
"draw a line at the end of your list. "
"goal to clear everything above the line by the end of the day".

Obviously this implies you keep a very trim list, or the goal is impossible. (Unless you mean only to clear the items pre-selected at the beginning of the day.) Following this plan I think implies that each day you try to work on everything new that came up yesterday, everything you didn't finish yesterday, and everything you ignored the day before. You don't have to finish any of these, but you attempt to touch on all of them.

Is this right?
July 5, 2012 at 20:49 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Hmm, your questions raise several thoughts.

Yes, I am keeping a trim list. About ten projects and one-off tasks per day, and about ten recurring tasks.

But one thing my summary didn't mention is "the tickler". If I action a taks and don't finish it, and don't want to see it again for three or four days, it goes into "the tickler", rather than the end of the FV list.

The rest of your summary is correct. I do mean to clear the entire list above the line each day - not just the preselected items.
July 6, 2012 at 18:53 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
As I think about this some more, I realize that the use of the tickler is really an integral part of what I'm doing, not just an incidental.

In fact, this is very much like AutoDIT, but somehow feels much simpler.

Also, it occurred to me that I could get basically the same algorithm, but somewhat simpler, by starting with a DIT setup, rather than starting with an FV setup. Here is how I am trying it now:

- Start with a dated journal - one page per day
- Enter all new tasks on tomorrow's page.
- Process today's page (and any unactioned tasks still remaining on previous days) using the FV algorithm. In other words, go to the earliest task, and dot it. Then create an FV chain in the usual way, on all the tasks in your journal, but stop at today. Don't include anything beyond today.
- (You can keep going to future pages if you really want - for example, if you've already finished everything on the pages today and earlier - but the idea is to limit your focus on the Today page).
- Your goal for each day is to action everything on today's page and all outstanding tasks on previous pages.
- If you have a new or re-entered task that you really don't want to think about until some future date, then write it on that future page. Handle recurring tasks the same way.
- For example, if you are busy at work all week, and don't have time for many personal tasks, you can enter personal tasks on the pages for the upcoming weekend.

Also, I am doing this in a paper notebook, rather than OneNote.

I am really not sure if any of this will work in the long-run, or even if I like it much in the short-run. But I do seem to be getting through my work.
July 6, 2012 at 19:13 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Seraphim, I tried that last year. It worked well for six months, then life got busy, I got too far behind, and it collapsed. Seeing I was 3 months behind on what I hoped would be a monthly rotation was discouraging. Systems that aren't quite so obvious about it work better for me.

It has nice features. Ticklers were built into the system rather than a separate page. Recurring tasks were automatically sorted each day by frequency (which often correlates with urgency). I wrote one-off or critical tasks at the bottom of the day, to keep them separate.

I could also see if I was scheduling too many tasks for a week, especially around vacation.

In hindsight, this system failed for the same reason later systems failed. Things go very well for a few weeks, then I get over-confident and open more projects rather than focusing on finishing the already-open ones. Then life gets busy again and I have too many open projects.

Another problem was lack of record for repeating tasks. Today I see "clean fish tank". There's no record of when I cleaned it last -- so I don't know how much leeway I have. Cleaning the tank is easy -- write it at the ideal 7 days and know I have 3 days grace. Other projects, though, vary. Was I optimistic when I wrote it, so I can let it slide, or pessimistic and really need to do it? Which tasks have to be done on certain dates, and which tasks just have to be done in order, and which just have to be done at a reasonable frequency?

Like I said, overload. I've come up with some ways around some of the problems. Tasks that just need to be done in order or at a reasonable frequency can go on a separate page. The main book gets "work on monthly list". Tasks with important dates can be starred.

It worked well with AF. Each week in the backlog was one page. It also worked with a variation of SF -- use a sticky for column 2. It would probably work well with FV.

Let us know how it goes.
July 6, 2012 at 22:30 | Registered CommenterCricket
I think my reactions lately are not due to the systems themselves, but to the fact that I am sick all the time and just have too many things going on. I've always had lots of commitments, and have always liked it that way.

But either my health is getting worse, or I have finally truly overcommitted myself, or both, because I just can't keep up with everything. I've started scaling back some commitments, and thinking harder about priorities.

But what tools are better than Mark's for sifting and sorting priorities??? :-)

Now, I am finding myself wanting to sift and sort my commitments, rather than my individual tasks. I suppose it's like using AF or FV to perform an audit of my commitments.

So, it's the commitments and major projects that go onto my list. Regular daily maintenance kinds of things also still go on my list, because otherwise there would be total chaos. My lists are FAR shorter than they have been in the past. And the DIT-like approach ensures that it stays that way. At least for now.

I am routinely ignoring a large class of tasks that I used to put onto AF1 or FV. These are the tasks that I really don't know what to do with. Should I read this article or explore that website? Should I watch that YouTube video? Should I respond to that email, or just let it sit? Should I buy this or that item? Should I explore this or that idea? AF1 and FV are both great at letting those items percolate until they demand to be actioned or are deleted. But right now, I am just ignoring all these things, throwing them all into a OneNote folder that "I will get to later". (Maybe). (I guess that's the definition of a "maybe someday" list?)

In practice, I almost never look at those items ever again. But calling it a "maybe someday list" is a good psychological trick for overcoming the fear of outright deletion. :-) And if there *is* anything there I need to access later, it's easy to find with OneNote's very fast search function.
July 7, 2012 at 16:58 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Seraphim, have you tried mark's dream book to help identify what commitments to value and what to let slide? I did this about 18 months ago, it was eye opening. Now I have a new job, soon a new house in a new town, thanks to identifying and working towards a future vision as identified thanks to this book.
July 7, 2012 at 22:26 | Unregistered CommenterVegheadjones
@Vegheadjoines - Yes, I have, but perhaps it's a good time to revisit.
July 9, 2012 at 21:53 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
<I am routinely ignoring a large class of tasks that I used to put onto AF1 or FV. These are the tasks that I really don't know what to do with. Should I read this article or explore that website? Should I watch that YouTube video? Should I respond to that email, or just let it sit? Should I buy this or that item? Should I explore this or that idea?>

For web pages and videos to look at, and things to consider buying I have 2 folders on the Firefox toolbar, called Read and Stuff. I just drag pages to the top of the folders, then when I need a bit of time out I scan down and pick what's most interesting. Similarly for ideas I scribble them down in a daily or reporters notebook.

So I never need to add them to a formal list as such, which makes things a lot less cluttered. HTH.
July 10, 2012 at 14:10 | Registered Commentersmileypete
@smileypete, I've gone both ways on that. I like having them in the main list so they get the same percolate & filter treatment as everything else. But they do add a lot of clutter. I'm trying to set up my "read" folder in an AF or FV structure so it will do the percolation and filtering on its own.
July 10, 2012 at 16:10 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Seraphim,

I remember cancelling the daily paper because I felt I had to read it. Now it's worse, since I personally chose all the feeds and sites to monitor.

Somehow, dropping them feels like a failure. I'm so unorganized / over-committed that I can't squeeze in another 3 minutes a day. If I drop this writing tips newsletter, I'm giving up on my goal to finish my novel. The friend I trust says it's a good article -- if I don't think it's reading, than I chose a friend who gives bad advice.

On the other hand, the ones that are worth reading should be read more efficiently. EverNote is great because i can sync the entire inbox to my tablet with one tap, then take it to my kids' meetings.

EverNote's "receive email" feature works great. Your EverNote account has an associate email. Anything you send to it goes to your EN inbox. For feeds where that doesn't work, I like EN's browser add-on. It sends the page (or part of it) to EN. So far, I'm staying on top of it. Since it sorts by date, it's easy to apply DWM.
July 10, 2012 at 19:05 | Registered CommenterCricket
Found it! Above is Seraphim's posts on FV/DIT. Curiously I feel like I'm reinventing the same thing now except for I'm keeping new tasks separate and I make a task of assessing when to do each new task. I feel it would be excess to dump everything into tomorrow which doesn't need doing tomorrow.

About overload as reported by Seraphim and Cricket, I think it's needed to audit commitments. Don't accept every incoming request as a to-do. Accept it as a to-decide and be aggressive with deciding no. This can be done within the bounds of Mark's systems but it requires a personal commitment to discriminating.
July 31, 2012 at 14:11 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
At the risk of speaking for others, there seems to be a growing consensus that FV lacks the self-limiting features of DIT or DWM.

For some people, this is not a problem. But for the rest of us, we tend to add things to our list faster than we remove things from our list. We need some mechanism that either slows down the rate at which new items can be added or speeds up the rate at which existing items can be removed.
July 31, 2012 at 17:31 | Registered Commentermoises
Agree there seems to be. Can it be remedied by a task within the system? "Limit list"
July 31, 2012 at 19:05 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
@moises - Yes, absolutely, I found that to be true. Combining FV with DIT solves the problem for me, and does not require any list-weeding.
July 31, 2012 at 19:28 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
@Alan - Yes, in some cases I am also limiting what goes onto my DIT list. I put some things into Unfiled Notes in OneNote, and clean it out once or twice a week. And I use Pocket for all my Internet reading, rather than capturing things in OneNote like I used to do.

I've tried experimenting with a "Think about..." page or a "grass catcher" page but haven't really found anything that works.

One thing that DOES work is to keep a few different carefully-categorized pages and put new items there. I have a page like that for my wife, and one for errands. And I keep project materials in OneNote. These really help to keep the DIT list free from clutter.

But still, if I don't know where to put something, the default is "do it tomorrow".
July 31, 2012 at 19:33 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
@Alan - The limited number of lines per page in the notebook serves as an effective limit. Over time, you can get a feel for the number of lines that works best for you. If something doesn't fit, you can put it on the next page, and this helps you stay aware of the fact you have too much going on.
July 31, 2012 at 19:35 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
I do this with OneNote. 40 tabs fit down the screen and that's my limit.
July 31, 2012 at 20:37 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I'm glad that works for you, Alan. You are probably more naturally disciplined than I am.

For me, it's not tactile enough to make me feel like it's a real limit. Plus, I tend to add things more quickly (and more randomly) to OneNote, than I do to my paper notebook. I'm still using OneNote to manage all my project details, and I still use "Unfiled Notes" to collect a few random odds and ends every week, but my main list is in a paper dated journal.
August 1, 2012 at 16:47 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
"More naturally disciplined". HA! Not likely, though sometimes I think it might be a good idea.

To me I HATE not being able to see everything easily so the scrolling is a big motivator to cut things down.
August 1, 2012 at 20:08 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
In any case, Alan, I find it fascinating that we keep reinventing each other's ideas independently. This is the third or fourth time that has happened!
August 3, 2012 at 5:16 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Seraphim,

"In any case, Alan, I find it fascinating that we keep reinventing each other's ideas independently. This is the third or fourth time that has happened!"

I believe Judge Koh has a slot free in January...

:0)
August 17, 2012 at 11:48 | Registered CommenterWill
Oops: removing duplicate: sorry
August 17, 2012 at 11:57 | Registered CommenterWill