FV and FVP Forum > Pruning and getting focus
I do the same thing, but not as often, maybe every week or 2. I try to keep the list at 50-60 items.
June 15, 2012 at 13:59 |
Lillian
Lillian
I just wrote about pruning in the Status thread. I have a challenge for you people: When is this Someday? How and when will it ever become Soonday? My theory is that Someday lists don't work. They collect stuff but the stuff never leaves. So don't do it!
Instead, make a planning task for such items. Plan how you will turn these tasks into a reality. Instead of "Someday go to England" on a Someday list, "Think about trip to England". But if England is only an option then "Think about big vacation" and have a planning diary where you weigh (way whey) the options and explore places and opportunities.
If you are prepared to think about the future, the thinking task goes in FV. If you're not even going to think, forget about the idea. More will come later.
Instead, make a planning task for such items. Plan how you will turn these tasks into a reality. Instead of "Someday go to England" on a Someday list, "Think about trip to England". But if England is only an option then "Think about big vacation" and have a planning diary where you weigh (way whey) the options and explore places and opportunities.
If you are prepared to think about the future, the thinking task goes in FV. If you're not even going to think, forget about the idea. More will come later.
June 15, 2012 at 20:19 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
mine go in a tickler file to come up again in 1 - 6 months (depends in the item). Or just gets deleted.
June 15, 2012 at 22:08 |
Lillian
Lillian
<< My theory is that Someday lists don't work. They collect stuff but the stuff never leaves. >>
I find stuff leaves my "Someday" list indirectly. When actioning a new task, I remembered/searched for previous related tasks in "Someday" list, and it get merged into the new task. Currently my "Someday" list is also called "Final Version Archives" list, a mix of done and dismissed items.
I find stuff leaves my "Someday" list indirectly. When actioning a new task, I remembered/searched for previous related tasks in "Someday" list, and it get merged into the new task. Currently my "Someday" list is also called "Final Version Archives" list, a mix of done and dismissed items.
June 16, 2012 at 4:50 |
sabre23t
sabre23t
Hi Alan
Mine is similar to Lilian. It is more a "to be actioned later list". On my main FV list I have an entry to review this list.
This other list I also prune, trying to keep these items below 80 items else it can easily explode as well. This will then force me to delete some items.
I strongly believe that there is a place for such a list as not all tasks are as relevant or improtant at the specific time, but may become relevant and important later.
Mine is similar to Lilian. It is more a "to be actioned later list". On my main FV list I have an entry to review this list.
This other list I also prune, trying to keep these items below 80 items else it can easily explode as well. This will then force me to delete some items.
I strongly believe that there is a place for such a list as not all tasks are as relevant or improtant at the specific time, but may become relevant and important later.
June 16, 2012 at 7:04 |
Nico McDonald
Nico McDonald
What you are doing is often less important than How and Why you are doing it.
June 16, 2012 at 14:31 |
michael
michael
Taking my own advice I am experimenting with running my FV list with 2 columns. The normal list is the WHAT column - fills up with the usual. The second column is a WHY/HOW list. It acts as a reminder to review and prune/focus. A WHAT list can become mainly low effort, low value, low reward activities. If I pause over a WHY flag it prompts reconsideration. The other way to use WHY is to generate activities, the WHY being the goal.
June 17, 2012 at 11:01 |
michael
michael
It sounds like we are all finding ways to build project lists as written up by Mark here:
http://www.markforster.net/one-thing-at-a-time
Pursuing "One Thing At a Time" within FV would look something like this:
Projects initially written in FV that make it to the top slot move to the project list, to be started later. While building FV chains, we focus our attention on a small set of projects (only one project ideally, but a small handful allows us some freedom in the face of resistance).
Those active projects generate tasks for FV, which are dotted and worked on little & often, in between any other urgent items also flowing through FV. New projects constantly show up on FV, but we refrain from starting them until finishing a current project.
Projects which moved off the FV list onto the project list for later attention will be activated in turn as we finish our current projects. Each time a new one is activated, it goes onto the FV list again and generates a flow of discrete tasks to be worked on. We can keep a short list of the active projects in plain view to remind ourselves what to focus on as we build each FV chain. Gradually we train ourselves not "want to do before X" anything that is really not urgent, until current work is finished.
Long projects? A year-long project cannot go into one of these "active" slots in its raw, year-long form, or it will block that slot for an entire year. We have to break down these projects into some manageable size, perhaps a one-week or one-month milestone. When that milestone is complete, the project hops down a few slots in the main project list so smaller ones can get through. Soon it bubbles to the top again, and we work on its next milestone.
Of course, if any of these projects have due dates, we also put reminders in a tickler file or calendar so the project does not get lost in the middle of the project list. And we write in FV "review project list" so that we will prune and sort the list periodically.
Note that this is still pure, unmodified FV. You still write everything on your main list, you still build your chains according to The Question, and you still start every chain with the topmost item. The additional project list gives you a place to store projects for later, and the One Thing At a Time principle affects your interpretation of The Question.
http://www.markforster.net/one-thing-at-a-time
Pursuing "One Thing At a Time" within FV would look something like this:
Projects initially written in FV that make it to the top slot move to the project list, to be started later. While building FV chains, we focus our attention on a small set of projects (only one project ideally, but a small handful allows us some freedom in the face of resistance).
Those active projects generate tasks for FV, which are dotted and worked on little & often, in between any other urgent items also flowing through FV. New projects constantly show up on FV, but we refrain from starting them until finishing a current project.
Projects which moved off the FV list onto the project list for later attention will be activated in turn as we finish our current projects. Each time a new one is activated, it goes onto the FV list again and generates a flow of discrete tasks to be worked on. We can keep a short list of the active projects in plain view to remind ourselves what to focus on as we build each FV chain. Gradually we train ourselves not "want to do before X" anything that is really not urgent, until current work is finished.
Long projects? A year-long project cannot go into one of these "active" slots in its raw, year-long form, or it will block that slot for an entire year. We have to break down these projects into some manageable size, perhaps a one-week or one-month milestone. When that milestone is complete, the project hops down a few slots in the main project list so smaller ones can get through. Soon it bubbles to the top again, and we work on its next milestone.
Of course, if any of these projects have due dates, we also put reminders in a tickler file or calendar so the project does not get lost in the middle of the project list. And we write in FV "review project list" so that we will prune and sort the list periodically.
Note that this is still pure, unmodified FV. You still write everything on your main list, you still build your chains according to The Question, and you still start every chain with the topmost item. The additional project list gives you a place to store projects for later, and the One Thing At a Time principle affects your interpretation of The Question.
June 17, 2012 at 17:40 |
Bernie
Bernie
Thanks Bernie, agree.
Side topic: I wonder however when the article was written by Mark? Do not like the estimation of when projects will be complete. Have found that this is notoriously inaccurate as there is to many factors involved, it places unneeded stress on the person and not much is gained with the overhead. I would say: Sort by urgency that is all (no dates).
Side topic: I wonder however when the article was written by Mark? Do not like the estimation of when projects will be complete. Have found that this is notoriously inaccurate as there is to many factors involved, it places unneeded stress on the person and not much is gained with the overhead. I would say: Sort by urgency that is all (no dates).
June 18, 2012 at 6:04 |
Nico McDonald
Nico McDonald
Sort by urgency neglects that some projects are more important, and therefore some urgent but relatively unimportant tasks should be abandoned, or maybe not started as quickly or as soon so you can make sure to put good effort into the important task. Maybe make even effort more than is "necessary", because you have time to do so, because you started the important task before it was urgent.
June 18, 2012 at 13:52 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I was thinking of a way of doing this. The original idea though was so I can have one page of tasks seperate to my notes and doodles. It's sort of called 'Double FV'. Rule 1. No more than 2 sides of paper to be used for tasks - the list will get pruned regularly and will not get too big. 2. No more than 2 tasks selected at any one time (although urgent items can be marked so they do not count in this rule). The page with FV tasks is book marked in some way - I prefer to leave the tab corner intact tab-out the other pages at the top corners.
June 18, 2012 at 17:36 |
Leon
Leon
Leon - I do it rather informally. When the list is 'too large' (somewhere over 60, but it's more of a feeling of "ugh, this is too much" rather than a hard & fast rule of "prune when list is more than 61"). I run through the list and basically anything that doesn't have a deadline or other urgency of being done by the end of the month (or 2 weeks, if it's still early in the month) gets moved off. Duplicates just get crossed off. (sometimes a duplicate cleanup is all the list needs re pruning and I don't do anything more intense) Anything that gets moved off the list is dumped into the tickler for next month.
or I do what I did last night - between vacation & illness, I haven't looked at the (home) list in 2 weeks. I dumped the whole thing into July's tickler. I started over with whatever I could think of. Then I did a quick 30 second review of the old list to be sure I didn't forget anything that can't wait until July.
or I do what I did last night - between vacation & illness, I haven't looked at the (home) list in 2 weeks. I dumped the whole thing into July's tickler. I started over with whatever I could think of. Then I did a quick 30 second review of the old list to be sure I didn't forget anything that can't wait until July.
June 18, 2012 at 17:46 |
Lillian
Lillian
<How and when will it ever become Soonday? My theory is that Someday lists don't work. They collect stuff but the stuff never leaves. So don't do it! >
I'm ok with having a Someday/Maybe list of things that will never happen. I call it my five-mile list, since in its complete form it would probably be five miles long. Most of the stuff on it will never happen.
Many of the items are options. I have a long list of music I want to work on. When I'm ready for a new piece, rather than wandering around without an idea, I look there. I have a list of books I'd like to read someday. When I realize I need more information about a topic, or my reading has become too limited (I tend to stick with a genre or author too long), I know where to go. I'll never work on all those songs, or read up on all those topics, or read all the books friends recommend, and that's ok.
Also, it's easier for me to move things from my active list to that list than to the garbage. It acknowledges that I was interested enough to write it down and maybe do some research.
I'd hate to reach the point where there's nothing left for me to do. The Someday/Maybe list is proof that I won't. I will always have a good variety of things to choose from.
I'm ok with having a Someday/Maybe list of things that will never happen. I call it my five-mile list, since in its complete form it would probably be five miles long. Most of the stuff on it will never happen.
Many of the items are options. I have a long list of music I want to work on. When I'm ready for a new piece, rather than wandering around without an idea, I look there. I have a list of books I'd like to read someday. When I realize I need more information about a topic, or my reading has become too limited (I tend to stick with a genre or author too long), I know where to go. I'll never work on all those songs, or read up on all those topics, or read all the books friends recommend, and that's ok.
Also, it's easier for me to move things from my active list to that list than to the garbage. It acknowledges that I was interested enough to write it down and maybe do some research.
I'd hate to reach the point where there's nothing left for me to do. The Someday/Maybe list is proof that I won't. I will always have a good variety of things to choose from.
June 18, 2012 at 20:41 |
Cricket
Cricket
Nico:
<< Side topic: I wonder however when the article was written by Mark? >>
It was written while I was working on Do It Tomorrow. In the end it morphed into the chapter on the Current Initiative.
<< Do not like the estimation of when projects will be complete. >>
The idea of the estimated times is to show you that it is actually possible to get through these projects in a matter of weeks or months, rather than years or decades.
<< Have found that this is notoriously inaccurate as there is to many factors involved,
These are estimates not targets. The idea is to improve your estimating ability by comparing your estimated completion date with the actual completion date. Distractions and other factors involved are the "white noise" which is the background to all the work we do, and the idea is that we learn to take it properly into account when estimating the length of projects. A valuable skill.
<< it places unneeded stress on the person and not much is gained with the overhead.>>
See above. Again I stress these are intended to be estimates not targets.
<< Side topic: I wonder however when the article was written by Mark? >>
It was written while I was working on Do It Tomorrow. In the end it morphed into the chapter on the Current Initiative.
<< Do not like the estimation of when projects will be complete. >>
The idea of the estimated times is to show you that it is actually possible to get through these projects in a matter of weeks or months, rather than years or decades.
<< Have found that this is notoriously inaccurate as there is to many factors involved,
These are estimates not targets. The idea is to improve your estimating ability by comparing your estimated completion date with the actual completion date. Distractions and other factors involved are the "white noise" which is the background to all the work we do, and the idea is that we learn to take it properly into account when estimating the length of projects. A valuable skill.
<< it places unneeded stress on the person and not much is gained with the overhead.>>
See above. Again I stress these are intended to be estimates not targets.
June 19, 2012 at 8:22 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Lillian’s proposal to dump everything into next month’s tickler file and restart the FV list after being away for a longer times may be a good idea.
I’ll do some experiments with this idea next week when I’m back in office after having been away four weeks.
It might be a good idea to have a separate discussion about what to do after returning back to one’s FV list after a longer pause. It is an exceptional situation which happens to most of us sooner or later.
I’ll do some experiments with this idea next week when I’m back in office after having been away four weeks.
It might be a good idea to have a separate discussion about what to do after returning back to one’s FV list after a longer pause. It is an exceptional situation which happens to most of us sooner or later.
June 21, 2012 at 10:38 |
pkNystrom
pkNystrom
Bernie began the discussion about project lists:
Some of my projects have pretty hard due dates which are actually need dates. Those projects are usually related to projects that have a schedule. Some of the other projects are more important than the ones with a such date.
I think the idea of having projects organised by their due dates has one advantage not mentioned above. When putting the more and less important projects on the list in the order of (estimated) due dates it is easier to see if externally connected projects are taking so much time that the important-with-no-due-date projects will end up to be ignored.
In order to be able to say as early as possible that I do not have time to do some externally connected project I need to see the whole picture including the (tentative) due dates. And if I still have to do those externally connected ones, it is easier to see what more important projects will be sacrified. And inform it to others.
In a way, this is pruning not on a task/item level but on the project level.
I do not at this moment keep a separate projects list. I think there are enough good reasons in this thread to make a such one as I now know how to use it to my benefit.
Some of my projects have pretty hard due dates which are actually need dates. Those projects are usually related to projects that have a schedule. Some of the other projects are more important than the ones with a such date.
I think the idea of having projects organised by their due dates has one advantage not mentioned above. When putting the more and less important projects on the list in the order of (estimated) due dates it is easier to see if externally connected projects are taking so much time that the important-with-no-due-date projects will end up to be ignored.
In order to be able to say as early as possible that I do not have time to do some externally connected project I need to see the whole picture including the (tentative) due dates. And if I still have to do those externally connected ones, it is easier to see what more important projects will be sacrified. And inform it to others.
In a way, this is pruning not on a task/item level but on the project level.
I do not at this moment keep a separate projects list. I think there are enough good reasons in this thread to make a such one as I now know how to use it to my benefit.
June 21, 2012 at 11:35 |
pkNystrom
pkNystrom
Personally, my pruning comes as a natural part of FV. The Question, "What do I WANT to do before x?" will clearly select different tasks as your wants change. (and change they do of course.) When I get the "Ugh, this is too much" feeling to whichLillian refers, I find myself saying to myself "I WANT to relieve myself of the commitments to things of questionable relevancy." At that point, using the usual Question, I create 1-3 task chains that select tasks of questionable relevancy. Then, per FV rules, I work them off, where "work" often involves simply deciding once and for all, what I will do with these tasks. Also per the FV rules, I may decide they are no longer relevant and simply kill them, or I may put them on a Maybe Someday list (I prefer to call it a "Maybe Someday" list rather than a "Someday / Maybe" list. Just rolls off the tongue better. Sorry David Alen.) Like Cricket, I too feel just fine with a long list of things I know I will never complete, given that I have populated the list from my FV list. This ensures that the Maybe Someday list only contains things that I have not committed myself to doing. This way, I can allow my mind to relax with the knowledge that I'm not "tardy" on anything on that list - it's just there to preserve past inklings.
The method I use above to clear out less than relevant tasks, also works for other things. I could decide that my list is full of quick turnaround "low hanging fruit" and I WANT to clear them off my list. Or that there are 2 major projects on my list that MUST be done above all other projects, and so I WANT to focus all my effort on them. Simply deciding what I WANT before preselecting tends to keep my list down to a manageable level, and to keep my focused on the most important/urgent things.
The method I use above to clear out less than relevant tasks, also works for other things. I could decide that my list is full of quick turnaround "low hanging fruit" and I WANT to clear them off my list. Or that there are 2 major projects on my list that MUST be done above all other projects, and so I WANT to focus all my effort on them. Simply deciding what I WANT before preselecting tends to keep my list down to a manageable level, and to keep my focused on the most important/urgent things.
June 21, 2012 at 13:58 |
Miracle
Miracle
I started a daily "prune" routine. In this routine I make sure that my list does not contain more than 40 items. Items get pruned off by moving them to a someday/maybe list. (Most probably 90% of the items on the someday/maybe list will never get worked on, but it is easier for me psychology to do this rather than deleting the item.)
This then results in a more focussed approach to my way of working.