FV and FVP Forum > Let's Build the Perfect App
great start. I'd add:
for features such as filters, show only done, show only not done & such, have instant access to turn then on and off, one tap, and not going through endless setting screens.
add multiple tasks in a row, without needing to fully leave keyboard all the way back out to list view. I think CLEAR does something like this.
be interesting to integrate with time blocks, without turning into a complex calendar.
for features such as filters, show only done, show only not done & such, have instant access to turn then on and off, one tap, and not going through endless setting screens.
add multiple tasks in a row, without needing to fully leave keyboard all the way back out to list view. I think CLEAR does something like this.
be interesting to integrate with time blocks, without turning into a complex calendar.
June 23, 2012 at 10:28 |
matthewS
matthewS
Seems like an interesting project. The first, and most important, step will be to rationalise the requirements, pare them down to the essentials (possibly with a roadmap for inclusion of future requirements) and then build a mockup.
For building the mockup, I would suggest Balsamiq which has a web demo version available here: http://builds.balsamiq.com/b/mockups-web-demo/
For this to be a viable project, I think it needs to be useable without FV so that it appeals to a wider audience.
For building the mockup, I would suggest Balsamiq which has a web demo version available here: http://builds.balsamiq.com/b/mockups-web-demo/
For this to be a viable project, I think it needs to be useable without FV so that it appeals to a wider audience.
June 23, 2012 at 11:17 |
aus
aus
Funny how just this morning I was dumping notes of what a usable app would need to have to work for me.
Most are included in your list, but I'd add:
• Easy bulk operations on a number of tasks simultaneously (e.g. delete, complete, tag, move; Index Card gets this *almost* right)… include a "Select All" button.
• The above bulk operations should also work on search results and filtered lists.
Michael B.:
> • … [multi-platform / syncing] … from the moment it's released
That a very high goal to reach! Can't see it happening, specially for indie developers. Actually think it's a wrong approach to go "big bang" until you have a proven successful product.
aus:
I don't think timeblocks and timers belong in this app. There are other apps more focused on that, which do the job very well.
Most are included in your list, but I'd add:
• Easy bulk operations on a number of tasks simultaneously (e.g. delete, complete, tag, move; Index Card gets this *almost* right)… include a "Select All" button.
• The above bulk operations should also work on search results and filtered lists.
Michael B.:
> • … [multi-platform / syncing] … from the moment it's released
That a very high goal to reach! Can't see it happening, specially for indie developers. Actually think it's a wrong approach to go "big bang" until you have a proven successful product.
aus:
I don't think timeblocks and timers belong in this app. There are other apps more focused on that, which do the job very well.
June 23, 2012 at 12:38 |
Hugo Ferreira
Hugo Ferreira
Hugo:
"'[multi-platform / syncing] … from the moment it's released...'
That a very high goal to reach! Can't see it happening, specially for indie developers. Actually think it's a wrong approach to go "big bang" until you have a proven successful product."
You're right, that's not a realistic goal, but it would win over the most people. If I were developing it, I would develop in this order:
iPhone/iPod Touch > iPad > Mac > PC > Android
Android being the least profitable of the five.
"'[multi-platform / syncing] … from the moment it's released...'
That a very high goal to reach! Can't see it happening, specially for indie developers. Actually think it's a wrong approach to go "big bang" until you have a proven successful product."
You're right, that's not a realistic goal, but it would win over the most people. If I were developing it, I would develop in this order:
iPhone/iPod Touch > iPad > Mac > PC > Android
Android being the least profitable of the five.
June 23, 2012 at 13:20 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
"• Resettable checklists for packing lists, routines, and workflows
• No checkboxes or checkmarks
• Can flag tasks but without using clipart-like tacky-looking flags and stars
"
What kind of visual indicators do you have in mind?
• No checkboxes or checkmarks
• Can flag tasks but without using clipart-like tacky-looking flags and stars
"
What kind of visual indicators do you have in mind?
June 23, 2012 at 14:10 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan:
"What kind of visual indicators do you have in mind?"
... Some ideas:
• A small bold dot in front of the item
• A change of the item's text color
• The text box could be highlighted with a light pastel color
Also, I wanted to get these out there, borrowing from Clear for iOS:
• Swipe left to delete
• Swipe right to check off
• Shake to undo an action
• Pinch to go back a screen
• When typing a task, swipe left to instantly erase what you've written, and right to put it back
"What kind of visual indicators do you have in mind?"
... Some ideas:
• A small bold dot in front of the item
• A change of the item's text color
• The text box could be highlighted with a light pastel color
Also, I wanted to get these out there, borrowing from Clear for iOS:
• Swipe left to delete
• Swipe right to check off
• Shake to undo an action
• Pinch to go back a screen
• When typing a task, swipe left to instantly erase what you've written, and right to put it back
June 23, 2012 at 14:56 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
A setting in the app would allow the date to automatically be added to the front of the task when initially adding the task and at the end of the task when it's checked off — and both dates would travel with the task when it's exported as text out of the app.
And of course, new, re-entered, and moved tasks are all entered at the end of the list, with a toggle in the app settings that switches this to the top of the list.
And of course, new, re-entered, and moved tasks are all entered at the end of the list, with a toggle in the app settings that switches this to the top of the list.
June 23, 2012 at 15:24 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
I wonder if a consensus is even possible with this project. It's certainly a tall order to fit all these features in, and keep a clean interface. At some point you run into either too much visual clutter or too much gestural conflation. At some point you need to say this app will be biased in favour of this kind of action.
For two points of contention:
Not every user wants things to move to the top or bottom only. Settings can vastly complicate a program.
Anyway, I'd think tap to select/highlight an item. Tap more to select more. Action buttons for what is selected. Gestures for the most fundamental actions.
For two points of contention:
Not every user wants things to move to the top or bottom only. Settings can vastly complicate a program.
Anyway, I'd think tap to select/highlight an item. Tap more to select more. Action buttons for what is selected. Gestures for the most fundamental actions.
June 23, 2012 at 15:46 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I don't think an app too tightly coupled with a particular workflow, with settings for this and that, will ever work broadly or generate consensus. It can certainly be perfect for a few (think "MeWare"[1] type of apps) but not many.
I do think however that there is room for an app that has "very powerful manipulation tools" of "large quantities of list items", which can then be applied to several types of workflows.
Focusing on the key building blocks of list manipulation and letting it be flexible in the way it's used (think flexible "Spreadsheets" vs rigid "Access Forms")… There's a very interesting post by Joel Spolsky[2] regarding the power of this type of generic data structures, when he talks about their Trello web app.
--
Hugo
[1] http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/02/usware-vs-themware.html
[2] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/01/06.html
I do think however that there is room for an app that has "very powerful manipulation tools" of "large quantities of list items", which can then be applied to several types of workflows.
Focusing on the key building blocks of list manipulation and letting it be flexible in the way it's used (think flexible "Spreadsheets" vs rigid "Access Forms")… There's a very interesting post by Joel Spolsky[2] regarding the power of this type of generic data structures, when he talks about their Trello web app.
--
Hugo
[1] http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/02/usware-vs-themware.html
[2] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/01/06.html
June 23, 2012 at 17:13 |
Hugo Ferreira
Hugo Ferreira
Entirely right, Hugo. I bet someone could get far with an iPhone app that's just lists if they put the right simple UI on it.
Maybe for example like swipe left/right to go to next/previous list. Swipe up/down to scroll list. Tap top/bottom to go to top or bottom. Tap item to select. Drag it left/right/up/down/top/bottom to move it. Double-tap for details. But I emphasize it's only an example. It takes a lot of brainstorming to really make an interface idea fly.
Maybe for example like swipe left/right to go to next/previous list. Swipe up/down to scroll list. Tap top/bottom to go to top or bottom. Tap item to select. Drag it left/right/up/down/top/bottom to move it. Double-tap for details. But I emphasize it's only an example. It takes a lot of brainstorming to really make an interface idea fly.
June 23, 2012 at 21:03 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Ideally be able to customise the mapping of gestures, hotkeys to UI actions, starting with a useful set of defaults. Add a skinnable interface on top, with a nice default theme too.
June 23, 2012 at 23:28 |
smileypete
smileypete
ha, that's a list of things I absolutely wouldn't want :-)
June 24, 2012 at 4:28 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Let's not edit our ideas. Let's generate ideas free of our internal editors. Separate idea generation from the editing process. Later we can cut out the best slice from our idea pie.
June 24, 2012 at 4:58 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
There is a new Iphone app called Accomplist. Seems to be matching most of the requirements and I have found it useful. Check it out
June 24, 2012 at 5:09 |
naim
naim
Integration with a desktop or web app would be very useful as data entry point.
June 24, 2012 at 6:06 |
JD
JD
Could an FV app be designed using HTML5 with fast start-up and operation, full offline use, a simple, beautiful, gesture driven interface, and an extensive in-app settings panel? I've tried all the web apps mentioned on the forum and found them favoring function over form, experience, and speed.
June 24, 2012 at 11:33 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
Just been trying out Trello, and I have to say that it's very good. Covers many of the feature requests and I think enough of them for me to give it a try.
Anyone else feel like trying it out?
Anyone else feel like trying it out?
June 24, 2012 at 12:33 |
aus
aus
<< ha, that's a list of things I absolutely wouldn't want :-) >>
Why not???
Why not???
June 24, 2012 at 20:34 |
smileypete
smileypete
aus:
I've tried Trello and lately it's the app I've used the most for collaboration and giving visibility of project's progress to clients.
Their browser web app in the desktop is great, specially when you start exploring and using the keyboard shortcuts[1]. Very fast and powerful.
Unfortunately I found their mobile solutions severely lacking:
- the iPhone native apps is great for minor changes to an existing board while on the go, but is very limited in functionality when compared to the web version.
- the mobile web app is very good, but without keyboard shortcuts it simply takes too many taps to do the most basic tasks, like preselecting a few cards to work on.
--
Hugo
[1] http://trello.com/shortcuts
I've tried Trello and lately it's the app I've used the most for collaboration and giving visibility of project's progress to clients.
Their browser web app in the desktop is great, specially when you start exploring and using the keyboard shortcuts[1]. Very fast and powerful.
Unfortunately I found their mobile solutions severely lacking:
- the iPhone native apps is great for minor changes to an existing board while on the go, but is very limited in functionality when compared to the web version.
- the mobile web app is very good, but without keyboard shortcuts it simply takes too many taps to do the most basic tasks, like preselecting a few cards to work on.
--
Hugo
[1] http://trello.com/shortcuts
June 24, 2012 at 23:59 |
Hugo Ferreira
Hugo Ferreira
Clear is still the app for me. I liked the syncability of FocusPad, but found the web interface too unreliable.
June 25, 2012 at 17:41 |
ubi
ubi
"Let's not edit our ideas." Good thought.
"Could an FV app be designed using HTML5 with fast start-up and operation, full offline use, a simple, beautiful, gesture driven interface, and an extensive in-app settings panel?"
Quite possibly. Does offline HTML5 work in a web browser, or do you mean an app that runs that with a local database?
Can we step back a second and see if there's consensus at the base level? Avoiding details of how you use it, what should the feel be? Me I'd want something that is (1) Ultra-fast UI for the basic operations (2) Simple (3) Uncluttered (4) flexible use, not dictating the process. (5) easy data exchange
Do you agree? Is there anything equally basic I missed?
"Could an FV app be designed using HTML5 with fast start-up and operation, full offline use, a simple, beautiful, gesture driven interface, and an extensive in-app settings panel?"
Quite possibly. Does offline HTML5 work in a web browser, or do you mean an app that runs that with a local database?
Can we step back a second and see if there's consensus at the base level? Avoiding details of how you use it, what should the feel be? Me I'd want something that is (1) Ultra-fast UI for the basic operations (2) Simple (3) Uncluttered (4) flexible use, not dictating the process. (5) easy data exchange
Do you agree? Is there anything equally basic I missed?
June 25, 2012 at 23:13 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
What I was trying to get at earlier is for something flexible enough to prototype ideas, then it should be possible to have AF, FV, Kanban, GTD, tickler lists, whatever.
Seems all Marks systems have originated using paper, Kanban originated using a whiteboard, would having that flexibility in an app enable different systems to come about?
Seems all Marks systems have originated using paper, Kanban originated using a whiteboard, would having that flexibility in an app enable different systems to come about?
June 26, 2012 at 15:06 |
smileypete
smileypete
I've found that the best way to figure out what features really need to be done is to use a service like UserVoice[1]. It lets you list your options and people vote for what they want most. And it lets you have discussions on each feature.
I might be able to pitch in as a developer, but I don't have the tools to develop for iOS or Mac (yet).
[1] http://www.uservoice.com/feedback/
I might be able to pitch in as a developer, but I don't have the tools to develop for iOS or Mac (yet).
[1] http://www.uservoice.com/feedback/
June 26, 2012 at 15:48 |
jFenter
jFenter
smileypete, I agree flexibility is a good idea for people to create their own workflow.
jFenter, I think that's a fine idea for an actual app but not to create one. A good app should be designed with innovation and a feel for the whole, not by collections of features.
jFenter, I think that's a fine idea for an actual app but not to create one. A good app should be designed with innovation and a feel for the whole, not by collections of features.
June 26, 2012 at 17:14 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I'm open to being UI & visual design
June 27, 2012 at 2:35 |
matthewS
matthewS
there are so many CLEAR copies, RealMac says about 1 a week. perhaps easier to work with existing developer to shape app, depending on how ethically feel about if is knockoff or inspired by... including CLEAR could be app to give our suggestions - remove any ethical qualms
June 27, 2012 at 3:13 |
matthewS
matthewS
Returning to this forum after a lengthy absence, I like the Clear approach as espoused earlier in this thread.
I have an iPad, but no other iOS device, so am hesitant to try it, maybe stay with Evernote until further notice. At least that does enable me to use Windows, Android and iOS and synchronise with each other
On the other hand, I do carry my iPad along with my old Toshiba notebook in my work backpack . . . . . . There is no wi-fi available at my current project office, can Clear work off-line?
I have an iPad, but no other iOS device, so am hesitant to try it, maybe stay with Evernote until further notice. At least that does enable me to use Windows, Android and iOS and synchronise with each other
On the other hand, I do carry my iPad along with my old Toshiba notebook in my work backpack . . . . . . There is no wi-fi available at my current project office, can Clear work off-line?
June 27, 2012 at 11:14 |
Roger J
Roger J
Full disclosure: I am the author of FocusPad, an iOS app that was designed to work well with the original Autofocus method, but that works surprisingly well for FV. I have no desire to hijack this thread with any self-promotion, but when I look at the list of desired features in the first post, I was surprised to see how many of these features FocusPad already has. What is does not have is a Mac or Windows version, which for many people is understandably a deal breaker. On the other hand, it does have a Web version with fast syncing. Another issue is that it has a very utilitarian look, which seemed very "clean" when it came out, but is starting to feel a tad dated now.
So I guess my question is this: how far is FocusPad from the "ideal" app? If it were only a few changes away, that would be ample motivation for me to revise and update it :-)
So I guess my question is this: how far is FocusPad from the "ideal" app? If it were only a few changes away, that would be ample motivation for me to revise and update it :-)
June 27, 2012 at 16:16 |
Tony Mann
Tony Mann
Tony
Focus pad is my favorite app but it is far from the ideal app. I looked through the first post list you are referring to and FocusPad misses many of the points.
I won't list all but here are a few:
• Tasks (with notes) are importable and exportable as text
• Lists can be texted or emailed
-Listed aren't searchable on the mobile app.
-contexts/filters!
-sublists etc.
Overall it is definitely the best app for autofocus. However, there haven't been updates for a long time. I believe there was a transition of authors and the last one didn't do any updates when superfocus came out even though they were promised.
FV is out and I believe the only update was to improve the graphics of the app. I could be wrong. But basically I haven't seen any significant difference to account for FV. Yes, I can highlight to preselect and swipe backwards but his is cumbersome. And it is an ad hoc method I came up with on my own to settle with the lack of a more efficient method like filtering the chain.
The updates are very rare and the last review is from Nov 14 2010.
I'm not a developer so I'm certain that I am greatly underestimating the complexity and time of adding features. But it seems it's been very long compared to other apps updates. I have received more updates from Clear and that came out probably 5 months ago. even Blanclist has given more significant updates in the right direction and it's pretty new to the scene as well.
Many features from the Focuspad/FV post have been requested and I'm not certain what's the status, or what is the timeline.
So to answer your question, from a customers perspective and someone who has faith in this app, Focuspad is very far from an ideal app. Many apps offer the feature FP doesn't have (ex. Toodledo, clear, BlancList etc) and they have frequent updates, and they respond more to feedback.
Example: BlancList author doesn't quite have the perfect app, but I've corresponded and there was work done in the right direction. Little improvements here and there have been great.
The changes from autofocus to FV are few but still require some updating to the app. Many features have already been requested in the FP/FV thread along with feedback. That should be enough to motivate you and update. :)
What is the next 1 single feature at the top of your list? And ballpark estimate, when should it be in the AppStore as an update?
Focus pad is my favorite app but it is far from the ideal app. I looked through the first post list you are referring to and FocusPad misses many of the points.
I won't list all but here are a few:
• Tasks (with notes) are importable and exportable as text
• Lists can be texted or emailed
-Listed aren't searchable on the mobile app.
-contexts/filters!
-sublists etc.
Overall it is definitely the best app for autofocus. However, there haven't been updates for a long time. I believe there was a transition of authors and the last one didn't do any updates when superfocus came out even though they were promised.
FV is out and I believe the only update was to improve the graphics of the app. I could be wrong. But basically I haven't seen any significant difference to account for FV. Yes, I can highlight to preselect and swipe backwards but his is cumbersome. And it is an ad hoc method I came up with on my own to settle with the lack of a more efficient method like filtering the chain.
The updates are very rare and the last review is from Nov 14 2010.
I'm not a developer so I'm certain that I am greatly underestimating the complexity and time of adding features. But it seems it's been very long compared to other apps updates. I have received more updates from Clear and that came out probably 5 months ago. even Blanclist has given more significant updates in the right direction and it's pretty new to the scene as well.
Many features from the Focuspad/FV post have been requested and I'm not certain what's the status, or what is the timeline.
So to answer your question, from a customers perspective and someone who has faith in this app, Focuspad is very far from an ideal app. Many apps offer the feature FP doesn't have (ex. Toodledo, clear, BlancList etc) and they have frequent updates, and they respond more to feedback.
Example: BlancList author doesn't quite have the perfect app, but I've corresponded and there was work done in the right direction. Little improvements here and there have been great.
The changes from autofocus to FV are few but still require some updating to the app. Many features have already been requested in the FP/FV thread along with feedback. That should be enough to motivate you and update. :)
What is the next 1 single feature at the top of your list? And ballpark estimate, when should it be in the AppStore as an update?
June 27, 2012 at 17:09 |
GMBW
GMBW
Tony,
Thanks for replying on this forum. You asked: "how far is FocusPad from the 'ideal' app?"
For FV, it's not far from ideal. For me, a native Mac app and rock-solid syncing between the Mac and iOS versions would get me to try it again. It would be great if the Mac app was a small window that looked identical to the iOS version on the iPhone's screen. Not sure how much work that would be.
The two things I like about FP are (1) the ability to enter new items quickly on the desktop (via the browser) and (2) the similarity to a paged written notebook (with everything staying in its place).
But I found that the browser-based sync was often very slow and occasionally broken, so I have given up using FP for now. Sorry, but if page reloads don't happen swiftly, or I get a broken display (double entries, quota-exceeded error), or if the iOS app contents don't match the web contents, then I cannot trust this system.
Thanks for replying on this forum. You asked: "how far is FocusPad from the 'ideal' app?"
For FV, it's not far from ideal. For me, a native Mac app and rock-solid syncing between the Mac and iOS versions would get me to try it again. It would be great if the Mac app was a small window that looked identical to the iOS version on the iPhone's screen. Not sure how much work that would be.
The two things I like about FP are (1) the ability to enter new items quickly on the desktop (via the browser) and (2) the similarity to a paged written notebook (with everything staying in its place).
But I found that the browser-based sync was often very slow and occasionally broken, so I have given up using FP for now. Sorry, but if page reloads don't happen swiftly, or I get a broken display (double entries, quota-exceeded error), or if the iOS app contents don't match the web contents, then I cannot trust this system.
June 27, 2012 at 18:18 |
ubi
ubi
I just started using the accomplist and it does indeed have most of the features of the 'ideal app' . I did speak to the developers , and they are going to be releasing versions across all platform soon. It's probably the best organiser I have used so far. It's very simple to use and has quite a few sophisticated features like tagging , bulk operations , filtering and something called smart tagging which u find to be a simply brilliant concept. Implementation of fv using accomplist is really good and simple. Plus it's not just limited to FV , one can implement different task management techniques using it. Thank you naim for suggesting it . I would reccommend it to any one who wants to be more organised.
June 27, 2012 at 19:30 |
Mark Brockbank
Mark Brockbank
Tony,
Still using FocusPad despite trying many other apps and I would be happy to pay for a new version if it had more features.
There is a fix required for scheduled actions so that they fire on the day but not the time the actions was created and I would like to see the following added:
- dated tasks
- tags
- sorting of tasks by date or tag in a different view
- search by date/tag/text
- manual movement of tasks between pages
- a 'birds eye' view showing mutiple pages at the same time with small text visible
One of the best things about FocusPad is the simple entry system and this should not be changed.
Still using FocusPad despite trying many other apps and I would be happy to pay for a new version if it had more features.
There is a fix required for scheduled actions so that they fire on the day but not the time the actions was created and I would like to see the following added:
- dated tasks
- tags
- sorting of tasks by date or tag in a different view
- search by date/tag/text
- manual movement of tasks between pages
- a 'birds eye' view showing mutiple pages at the same time with small text visible
One of the best things about FocusPad is the simple entry system and this should not be changed.
June 27, 2012 at 20:45 |
aus
aus
Well, coincidently, I was already planing to spend the summer ramping up my forays in iOS development, so this might a very good project to drive the learning process.
There are already thousands of "list" apps available in the App Store, so it seems that it has become the de-facto standard "hello world" of modern days mobile development ;) … one more won't hurt anyone, right? :)
I've started mocking up how I envision the "powerful manipulation tools" I mentioned above could be applied to an app. I think it's easier to comment and discuss something you can visualise, rather than abstract bullets in a list.
There are already thousands of "list" apps available in the App Store, so it seems that it has become the de-facto standard "hello world" of modern days mobile development ;) … one more won't hurt anyone, right? :)
I've started mocking up how I envision the "powerful manipulation tools" I mentioned above could be applied to an app. I think it's easier to comment and discuss something you can visualise, rather than abstract bullets in a list.
June 28, 2012 at 0:22 |
Hugo Ferreira
Hugo Ferreira
Aus & Hugo:
I must say the more I use Trello, the better I like it.
Preselecting is quite easy (and fun). I have a main to do list and just drag the preselected cards to the FV list to work on. If it gets done at one go, it goes to the "done" list. Then repeat.
I also like the way I can post comments to log work done or just some thoughts on the subject. So sometimes, a "card" becomes a multi-step project, sometimes it's just a simple task.
I must say the more I use Trello, the better I like it.
Preselecting is quite easy (and fun). I have a main to do list and just drag the preselected cards to the FV list to work on. If it gets done at one go, it goes to the "done" list. Then repeat.
I also like the way I can post comments to log work done or just some thoughts on the subject. So sometimes, a "card" becomes a multi-step project, sometimes it's just a simple task.
June 29, 2012 at 16:13 |
JD
JD
Thanks for the comments about FocusPad. I will keep my reply short, since this thread has the more important mission of identifying all the features an ideal FV app should have.
I was going full-steam on FP development several years ago, when a few events completely derailed me. As mentioned, I found a developer to take it over, but he did nothing at all and then disappeared completely, so that just worsened the situation. Hugo, if you are interested in working on it, let me know -- I will make it very much worth your while.
I recently released an update, which fixes the tickler bug aus mentioned and supports multi-tasking. I believe syncing should be nice and fast now, as I upgraded the backend Google App Engine database. However, the release did not add any new features, which is understandably frustrating.
Tasks can be exported via the Web version. It would of course be better to be able to do that from iOS as well.
I believe these features are the most requested, and not having them is a deal breaker for some people:
* Tagging
* Searching
* Filtering
Am I missing anything else major?
I have yet to find an app quite like FocusPad, so I want to improve it so we can all continue to use it.
I was going full-steam on FP development several years ago, when a few events completely derailed me. As mentioned, I found a developer to take it over, but he did nothing at all and then disappeared completely, so that just worsened the situation. Hugo, if you are interested in working on it, let me know -- I will make it very much worth your while.
I recently released an update, which fixes the tickler bug aus mentioned and supports multi-tasking. I believe syncing should be nice and fast now, as I upgraded the backend Google App Engine database. However, the release did not add any new features, which is understandably frustrating.
Tasks can be exported via the Web version. It would of course be better to be able to do that from iOS as well.
I believe these features are the most requested, and not having them is a deal breaker for some people:
* Tagging
* Searching
* Filtering
Am I missing anything else major?
I have yet to find an app quite like FocusPad, so I want to improve it so we can all continue to use it.
June 29, 2012 at 16:42 |
Tony Mann
Tony Mann
Tony:
Hope some momentum is being generated here, because like others here, I think Focus Pad is a great product that could be much greater. I look forward to your work and thanks for all the effort you've put into it.
Hope some momentum is being generated here, because like others here, I think Focus Pad is a great product that could be much greater. I look forward to your work and thanks for all the effort you've put into it.
June 29, 2012 at 16:59 |
JD
JD
I wonder if any of the "shopping list" apps might be a solution.
They always pop up if you scroll the iPhone app store's "productivity" section. Seems that a lot the FV requirements might be built-in, if you can ignore the having your projects named something like "Dairy Case at the Piggly-Wiggly."
They always pop up if you scroll the iPhone app store's "productivity" section. Seems that a lot the FV requirements might be built-in, if you can ignore the having your projects named something like "Dairy Case at the Piggly-Wiggly."
June 30, 2012 at 13:57 |
danno
danno
So glad to be reminded of FocusPad. I used to use it for AutoFocus, but abandoned it when experimenting with some of Mark's systems that didn't work so well with it. FocusPad is easily adaptable to Final Version. Would love a refresh, and would gladly pay for it.
July 1, 2012 at 1:52 |
Christopher
Christopher
All the positive energy for FP is working :-) I have search and filter-by-color working on my development machine. Expect an update within the next few weeks.
July 4, 2012 at 21:54 |
Tony Mann
Tony Mann
Look forward to it!
July 4, 2012 at 23:23 |
GMBW
GMBW
I'll second that! :)
Tony, Glad that you can feel that you do have a following here and that the positive "energy" is finding its way through to you
I'm sure even the changes you mention will really put FP as the only true Fv app out there on iPhone. By the sounds of it we should have a near perfect fv solution at last
Good luck to you
Tony, Glad that you can feel that you do have a following here and that the positive "energy" is finding its way through to you
I'm sure even the changes you mention will really put FP as the only true Fv app out there on iPhone. By the sounds of it we should have a near perfect fv solution at last
Good luck to you
July 4, 2012 at 23:41 |
Grik
Grik
@Tony. One other thing I forgot to mention
In respect of filters. Are you planning on an active filter
By this I mean the following
When selecting items from the list could a filter be applied so that only selected items show up to the last selected item and then everything after that pointis unfiltered
Why?
Due to the paged approach that FP takes we could in theory select first item off first page and then next item to select could be 5 pages further on by which time I have forgotten my first comparison item. So either show all preselected items and then all following tasks that are eligible for selection
OR
Just retain the last selected item on screen somewhere for comparison purposes .. Perhaps this is in fact simpler approach to the former :)
Rgds. G
In respect of filters. Are you planning on an active filter
By this I mean the following
When selecting items from the list could a filter be applied so that only selected items show up to the last selected item and then everything after that pointis unfiltered
Why?
Due to the paged approach that FP takes we could in theory select first item off first page and then next item to select could be 5 pages further on by which time I have forgotten my first comparison item. So either show all preselected items and then all following tasks that are eligible for selection
OR
Just retain the last selected item on screen somewhere for comparison purposes .. Perhaps this is in fact simpler approach to the former :)
Rgds. G
July 5, 2012 at 14:36 |
Grik
Grik
Grik,
In other words, you want a split view, so (for example) you can see the "blue" tasks at the same you see the non-blue tasks, and have them be separately paged. It is an intriguing request, but this would be a major change to the UI, so don't expect it any time soon. I will add to request list.
It would be particularly cool if I ever do an iPad version....
In other words, you want a split view, so (for example) you can see the "blue" tasks at the same you see the non-blue tasks, and have them be separately paged. It is an intriguing request, but this would be a major change to the UI, so don't expect it any time soon. I will add to request list.
It would be particularly cool if I ever do an iPad version....
July 5, 2012 at 21:17 |
Tony Mann
Tony Mann
Tony:
"...how far is FocusPad from the "ideal" app? If it were only a few changes away, that would be ample motivation for me to revise and update it..."
The list I made above is simply a list of things I see people inevitably asking for, I don't personally think all of that is necessary for an app to be ideal. My want list is much shorter. Out of the items on my list I have chosen the three it would take to get me aboard.
To come aboard the good ship FocusPad I would request these three changes:
• A setting to use every list as an endless-scrolling-list
• A touch-target for instant transport to the top and bottom of any list when endless-scrolling is active. (Without the page-centric features at the bottom, the list could go all the way to the bottom-edge where a touch-target could be inserted as in Clear for iOS, alternatively, the bottom bar could remain and other endless-scrolling-centric features could be placed to either side of the "transport to the bottom" touch-target.)
• Making the blue text color a readable shade of green instead. Blue is not readily associated with action, though red (for "urgent", "now", "stop", or "wait") and green (for "go", "ready", "active", or "today") are.
Your time is valuable and you should be paid for your development efforts. A PayPal donation button added to your website would allow current owners of the app to support your development efforts (and Apple doesn't get 30% of that!).
A question regarding the current functionality of the app:
When you schedule a recurring task in FocusPad, and the day comes for it to move to your list as active, and you complete that task, will the task automatically set itself to recur again according to the pattern you've set? Or does it require re-scheduling each time you complete it?
"...how far is FocusPad from the "ideal" app? If it were only a few changes away, that would be ample motivation for me to revise and update it..."
The list I made above is simply a list of things I see people inevitably asking for, I don't personally think all of that is necessary for an app to be ideal. My want list is much shorter. Out of the items on my list I have chosen the three it would take to get me aboard.
To come aboard the good ship FocusPad I would request these three changes:
• A setting to use every list as an endless-scrolling-list
• A touch-target for instant transport to the top and bottom of any list when endless-scrolling is active. (Without the page-centric features at the bottom, the list could go all the way to the bottom-edge where a touch-target could be inserted as in Clear for iOS, alternatively, the bottom bar could remain and other endless-scrolling-centric features could be placed to either side of the "transport to the bottom" touch-target.)
• Making the blue text color a readable shade of green instead. Blue is not readily associated with action, though red (for "urgent", "now", "stop", or "wait") and green (for "go", "ready", "active", or "today") are.
Your time is valuable and you should be paid for your development efforts. A PayPal donation button added to your website would allow current owners of the app to support your development efforts (and Apple doesn't get 30% of that!).
A question regarding the current functionality of the app:
When you schedule a recurring task in FocusPad, and the day comes for it to move to your list as active, and you complete that task, will the task automatically set itself to recur again according to the pattern you've set? Or does it require re-scheduling each time you complete it?
July 7, 2012 at 5:04 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
<delete>
July 7, 2012 at 17:15 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
I am a big fan of FocusPad!
Tony, it does seem that people want tagging, searching, and filtering. Currently, the app has tagging and filtering of pages via the filled/empty diamond system, but only for pages and not tasks, so that is clearly necessary.
To Michael B.'s points
> • A setting to use every list as an endless-scrolling-list
Currently, FocusPad is an 'endless' list, but with a UI that requires advancing the list by swiping pages sideways. Is this a request to have the list scroll up/down so it doesn't seem to have a 'pages' metaphor? I just think of it as an endless list and ignore the 'page breaks'. Or is the issue that you want a better task filter that filters by task rather than by page? Would you be ok with the current set-up but a better task filter that only shows the tasks by currently selected by the filter. You can get to the top/bottom of the list very quickly with the slider at the bottom; no need to go page-by-page.
Personally, I like the current setup because I don't want to have to pay attention to how far I am scrolling to make sure I don't miss any tasks. The current set-up makes that easy.
> • Making the blue text color a readable shade of green instead. Blue is not readily associated with action, though red (for "urgent", "now", "stop", or "wait") and green (for "go", "ready", "active", or "today") are.
Ideally, the user could pick the 5 colors they wanted to have (I like blue, but I totally get your point)
> Your time is valuable and you should be paid for your development efforts. A PayPal donation button added to your website would allow current owners of the app to support your development efforts (and Apple doesn't get 30% of that!).
Another idea is a very small kickstarter.com campaign. I'd be more likely to donate if I felt that the total donations would be enough to give the developer enough time/incentime to complete the changes needed.
For me, the key thing is BUG FIXES on the iPhone (I don't really use the web app)
Right now, the app is showing me the to-do list, but it says 'Pads' where it should say 'to-do', the button on the top left says 'edit' with no arrow shape, and no button on the right. I can't figure out how to get to my list of pads, Killing the process and restarting fixes the problem and now it says 'to-do' at the top. I have problems like this probably once a week, where I have to kill the process.
Sync must be fixed. My sync to the web doesn't work very quickly or reliably. You should have a SYNC NOW button so I know it is at least trying to sync. I have had the web page open for a while, with the iPhone settings slider to the left, and it has not updated, and I have restarted, etc.
You should have a TEST SYNC button in settings that checks whether the app can successfully log in to Google and sync so that I can test the sync without a computer.
There are a number of UI improvements that would make the app better, especially with the tickler, but I'll save that until I see that you're picking up the project again on an ongoing basis.
Thanks for FocusPad!
Tony, it does seem that people want tagging, searching, and filtering. Currently, the app has tagging and filtering of pages via the filled/empty diamond system, but only for pages and not tasks, so that is clearly necessary.
To Michael B.'s points
> • A setting to use every list as an endless-scrolling-list
Currently, FocusPad is an 'endless' list, but with a UI that requires advancing the list by swiping pages sideways. Is this a request to have the list scroll up/down so it doesn't seem to have a 'pages' metaphor? I just think of it as an endless list and ignore the 'page breaks'. Or is the issue that you want a better task filter that filters by task rather than by page? Would you be ok with the current set-up but a better task filter that only shows the tasks by currently selected by the filter. You can get to the top/bottom of the list very quickly with the slider at the bottom; no need to go page-by-page.
Personally, I like the current setup because I don't want to have to pay attention to how far I am scrolling to make sure I don't miss any tasks. The current set-up makes that easy.
> • Making the blue text color a readable shade of green instead. Blue is not readily associated with action, though red (for "urgent", "now", "stop", or "wait") and green (for "go", "ready", "active", or "today") are.
Ideally, the user could pick the 5 colors they wanted to have (I like blue, but I totally get your point)
> Your time is valuable and you should be paid for your development efforts. A PayPal donation button added to your website would allow current owners of the app to support your development efforts (and Apple doesn't get 30% of that!).
Another idea is a very small kickstarter.com campaign. I'd be more likely to donate if I felt that the total donations would be enough to give the developer enough time/incentime to complete the changes needed.
For me, the key thing is BUG FIXES on the iPhone (I don't really use the web app)
Right now, the app is showing me the to-do list, but it says 'Pads' where it should say 'to-do', the button on the top left says 'edit' with no arrow shape, and no button on the right. I can't figure out how to get to my list of pads, Killing the process and restarting fixes the problem and now it says 'to-do' at the top. I have problems like this probably once a week, where I have to kill the process.
Sync must be fixed. My sync to the web doesn't work very quickly or reliably. You should have a SYNC NOW button so I know it is at least trying to sync. I have had the web page open for a while, with the iPhone settings slider to the left, and it has not updated, and I have restarted, etc.
You should have a TEST SYNC button in settings that checks whether the app can successfully log in to Google and sync so that I can test the sync without a computer.
There are a number of UI improvements that would make the app better, especially with the tickler, but I'll save that until I see that you're picking up the project again on an ongoing basis.
Thanks for FocusPad!
July 7, 2012 at 20:32 |
Jonathan
Jonathan
Jonathan:
"Would you be ok with the current set-up but a better task filter that only shows the tasks by currently selected by the filter."
... No. But I would like everyone to have access to the pages style as a setting that can be toggled on or off.
"You can get to the top/bottom of the list very quickly with the slider at the bottom; no need to go page-by-page."
... The problem isn't getting to the beginning or end of one's list quickly using the pages style. That's only a problem for an endless-scrolling list. The problem with the pages style of FocusPad and FV is that scanning a large list of tasks from beginning to end multiple times a day, page-by-page, in a tiny visual-window is tedious and is not as natural or easy to do one-handed. Scrolling long top-to-bottom lists can be done one-handed with your thumb, or, holding the device in your left hand (assuming you're right-handed), you can flick the screen up or down with your right index finger using the natural up or down bend of your finger. It's exactly why I think Apple should add the option to "page" through your iOS device apps from top to bottom instead of left to right. It's far less fatiguing to the hand.
"Would you be ok with the current set-up but a better task filter that only shows the tasks by currently selected by the filter."
... No. But I would like everyone to have access to the pages style as a setting that can be toggled on or off.
"You can get to the top/bottom of the list very quickly with the slider at the bottom; no need to go page-by-page."
... The problem isn't getting to the beginning or end of one's list quickly using the pages style. That's only a problem for an endless-scrolling list. The problem with the pages style of FocusPad and FV is that scanning a large list of tasks from beginning to end multiple times a day, page-by-page, in a tiny visual-window is tedious and is not as natural or easy to do one-handed. Scrolling long top-to-bottom lists can be done one-handed with your thumb, or, holding the device in your left hand (assuming you're right-handed), you can flick the screen up or down with your right index finger using the natural up or down bend of your finger. It's exactly why I think Apple should add the option to "page" through your iOS device apps from top to bottom instead of left to right. It's far less fatiguing to the hand.
July 7, 2012 at 22:14 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
I just submitted an update to Apple with the following changes:
* Search for a task. There is a new search bar in the Pads view.
* Show only tasks marked blue or red. Select the special new "Blue" or "Red" pad.
Before I respond to the recent posts, I want to let you know that there is a FocusPad mailing list. That would be a better place to post your bug reports and suggested tweaks, so we don't waste the time of folks not using the app. As for the larger feature requests, posting them here might still be appropriate, as it will continue to stir the conversation about what would make a great FV app. The mailing list is at:
http://groups.google.com/group/focuspad
To quickly summarize and respond to recent posts:
* I added "endless page" to my request list. This should not be very hard to do, since "long" pages are already supported. I like the idea, as it would make the app more broadly appealing to folks who don't like the page-based approach. The feature would include the standard tapping of the status bar to scroll to top. Not sure about scroll to bottom.
* I added "choose colors for highlights" to my request list.
* Jonathan, please find me on the FocusPad mailing list so I can work with you to resolve your issues. A few other people have had the same issue as you regarding the Pads view, but I have so far been unable to reproduce it myself. Perhaps together we can find and slay this bug once and for all.
* Jonathan, I spent a lot of time making syncing fast and reliable, so I am surprised you are having issues. Your idea of a "sync test" button is a good one, and I will add it to the requests list. I have considered adding a sync now button before, but I am not sure it is necessary if sync is working properly. Specifically, as of the recent update the app will now sync whenever it is made visible, which for most people will be sufficient to show changes made in the web version.
* Thank you for your suggestions regarding Kickstarter and PayPal. But for now the impediment to more FP development is time, not money. I wish someone could donate that! :-)
* Search for a task. There is a new search bar in the Pads view.
* Show only tasks marked blue or red. Select the special new "Blue" or "Red" pad.
Before I respond to the recent posts, I want to let you know that there is a FocusPad mailing list. That would be a better place to post your bug reports and suggested tweaks, so we don't waste the time of folks not using the app. As for the larger feature requests, posting them here might still be appropriate, as it will continue to stir the conversation about what would make a great FV app. The mailing list is at:
http://groups.google.com/group/focuspad
To quickly summarize and respond to recent posts:
* I added "endless page" to my request list. This should not be very hard to do, since "long" pages are already supported. I like the idea, as it would make the app more broadly appealing to folks who don't like the page-based approach. The feature would include the standard tapping of the status bar to scroll to top. Not sure about scroll to bottom.
* I added "choose colors for highlights" to my request list.
* Jonathan, please find me on the FocusPad mailing list so I can work with you to resolve your issues. A few other people have had the same issue as you regarding the Pads view, but I have so far been unable to reproduce it myself. Perhaps together we can find and slay this bug once and for all.
* Jonathan, I spent a lot of time making syncing fast and reliable, so I am surprised you are having issues. Your idea of a "sync test" button is a good one, and I will add it to the requests list. I have considered adding a sync now button before, but I am not sure it is necessary if sync is working properly. Specifically, as of the recent update the app will now sync whenever it is made visible, which for most people will be sufficient to show changes made in the web version.
* Thank you for your suggestions regarding Kickstarter and PayPal. But for now the impediment to more FP development is time, not money. I wish someone could donate that! :-)
July 9, 2012 at 14:25 |
Tony Mann
Tony Mann
FYI, I just upgraded FocusPad to a more high-powered option on Google App Engine. Hopefully this will resolve some of the sync slow-down issues.
And now I promise to stick to the thread's topic... :-)
And now I promise to stick to the thread's topic... :-)
July 9, 2012 at 14:59 |
Tony Mann
Tony Mann
• Runs on iPhone, iPad, All Android Devices, Macs, and PCs from the moment it's released
• Flawless syncing between all of the above systems and devices from the moment it's released
• Keyboard shortcuts when running on a Mac or PC
• Notes for each task
• Clean visual design with plenty of white space
• Dotting of a task takes one tap
• Re-writing a task at the end takes one tap, beating paper
• Tasks (with notes) are importable and exportable as text
• Lists can be texted or emailed
• Access to the top and bottom of the list takes one tap
• Lists are searchable
• Can flag tasks but without using clipart-like tacky-looking flags and stars
• Can add contexts and filter by them
• Can set a reminder for a task and not see the task in the list until it's ready to be actioned
• Can set complex recurring-reminders for tasks, and when that task is completed it is hidden from the list until it next needs actioning
• Entering a task takes one tap
• A long string of tasks in text form can be pasted into a list and result in separate tasks
• Can re-order tasks with one tap
• Can have multiple lists
• Can move tasks between lists with a few taps
• Can search for text within a list and from the search results make a pre-selection and check-off tasks
• No checkboxes or checkmarks
• Beautiful font choice like Helvetica
• Quick startup
• Fast opening lists
• Undo deleting of tasks or lists
• Tasks can be greyed-out or dimmed when putting off or waiting for
• Completed tasks can be archived
• Sublists for projects, multi-step tasks, and routine checklists
• Resettable checklists for packing lists, routines, and workflows
• A sense of play to the app, tactile
I'd like to build a comprehensive list of features others are looking for, because an app developer would have a hard time building an app for us when we haven't all clearly defined the minimum feature set and design we're looking for.
Can anyone add to the above?
Perhaps we can build our dream app here in the forum, and using a cross-section of our desires solicit help from someone who would like to profit from them.