FV and FVP Forum > Projects VS individual tasks VS mix
I generally enter the project name in my list, and keep all the details and specific actions in a separate project file.
I keep the detailed project file either as a page somewhere in the back of my notebook, or in Microsoft OneNote.
If I think of a task and it's easier just to add it to my list, rather than adding it to my project file, I will go ahead and add it to my list. When it's time to action that item, if it's quick I can just complete the action, but otherwise I usually move it to the project file at that time.
I keep the detailed project file either as a page somewhere in the back of my notebook, or in Microsoft OneNote.
If I think of a task and it's easier just to add it to my list, rather than adding it to my project file, I will go ahead and add it to my list. When it's time to action that item, if it's quick I can just complete the action, but otherwise I usually move it to the project file at that time.
August 4, 2012 at 0:02 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
There are several problems with adding project-related tasks directly into your list.
If you add too many of them, they can seem disconnected and chaotic. If you need to review the overall status of your project, but the only place you keep the details is your FV list, it can be time-consuming and complex to pull all the details together, and easy to miss some of them.
Also, there are probably inter-dependencies between the individual project tasks. It's easy to overlook these inter-dependencies if you enter all the tasks onto your list. It's easier to see them and decide how to act on them, when they are all together in your project file.
If you add too many of them, they can seem disconnected and chaotic. If you need to review the overall status of your project, but the only place you keep the details is your FV list, it can be time-consuming and complex to pull all the details together, and easy to miss some of them.
Also, there are probably inter-dependencies between the individual project tasks. It's easy to overlook these inter-dependencies if you enter all the tasks onto your list. It's easier to see them and decide how to act on them, when they are all together in your project file.
August 4, 2012 at 0:05 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
On the other hand, sometimes you may have a "HOT" item that's buried in a project file. You might forget about this hot item, and seeing the project name only on your list might not be enough to trigger your memory. Especially if it's a boring or high-resistance project overall.
In cases like that, I would probably add the "HOT" task directly to my FV list, and keep my project name on the list also.
For example:
I may have a project called "Clean Up Outside" (boring and high resistance).
There may be a task buried in there "Fix the leaky pipe". Maybe this leaky pipe is adding $100 to my monthly water bill. For me, that's a lot of money, so I better deal with it. But I really don't want to think about it, and when I see "Clean Up Outside" it is not enough to get me to remember the leaky pipe.
So, I add "Fix leaky pipe - $100/month!!" to my main list, in addition to keeping it in my "Clean up Outside" project file.
I might add a notation to the entry in the list -- this helps me remember it's part of a larger project: "Fix leaky pipe, $100/month! (Clean up outside)"
Basically, I try to keep all this as simple as possible with as few rules as possible. Getting the important things done is far more important than having a perfectly ordered list.
In cases like that, I would probably add the "HOT" task directly to my FV list, and keep my project name on the list also.
For example:
I may have a project called "Clean Up Outside" (boring and high resistance).
There may be a task buried in there "Fix the leaky pipe". Maybe this leaky pipe is adding $100 to my monthly water bill. For me, that's a lot of money, so I better deal with it. But I really don't want to think about it, and when I see "Clean Up Outside" it is not enough to get me to remember the leaky pipe.
So, I add "Fix leaky pipe - $100/month!!" to my main list, in addition to keeping it in my "Clean up Outside" project file.
I might add a notation to the entry in the list -- this helps me remember it's part of a larger project: "Fix leaky pipe, $100/month! (Clean up outside)"
Basically, I try to keep all this as simple as possible with as few rules as possible. Getting the important things done is far more important than having a perfectly ordered list.
August 4, 2012 at 0:11 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Dear Artem,
in my approach, I try to be driven less by rules and and more by what works. So I use mix of many methods, under no exact rules for when use what, I use just what feels right for particular project:
- I have separated project list (with future tasks, someday tasks, notes) + I put active tasks (usually only one or several of them, I try to limit active tasks to what I want to do in next 7-10 days) into main tasklist (big projects)
- I put project directly in main tasklist (Just "Project X") and when time comes, I just work on it (little and often) (creative projects, projects with not exact "next actions", easy projects, repeated tasks)
- I put project with next step directly in main tasklist in the form of output-task (e.g. "[notebook for mother] - reinstall windows") (more complicated projects with distinct next tasks, when only 1 (or 2) active task is enough)
I also tend to have more active tasklists for several areas at the moment (work, things, me, people...), not only one as before. They are not context based, rather role-based.
What I learnt is that (1) when you go through your lists quite often (review or FV preselection process) and (2) you do not have hundreds of active tasks, just tasks for next 7-14 days, you do not have to bother with exact system how to work with projects and where to put tasks, almost anything works and all dependencies, lacking tasks etc become obvious.
Also what is important - you do not have to make "next action" in GTD sense - for me it is often even counterproductive. Define so big tasks, that they are not anxiety provoking yet, but on the other hand they still have meaning, drive and motivation for you. For me it means task "reinstall windows" rather than "find install CD somewhere in the CD box"
in my approach, I try to be driven less by rules and and more by what works. So I use mix of many methods, under no exact rules for when use what, I use just what feels right for particular project:
- I have separated project list (with future tasks, someday tasks, notes) + I put active tasks (usually only one or several of them, I try to limit active tasks to what I want to do in next 7-10 days) into main tasklist (big projects)
- I put project directly in main tasklist (Just "Project X") and when time comes, I just work on it (little and often) (creative projects, projects with not exact "next actions", easy projects, repeated tasks)
- I put project with next step directly in main tasklist in the form of output-task (e.g. "[notebook for mother] - reinstall windows") (more complicated projects with distinct next tasks, when only 1 (or 2) active task is enough)
I also tend to have more active tasklists for several areas at the moment (work, things, me, people...), not only one as before. They are not context based, rather role-based.
What I learnt is that (1) when you go through your lists quite often (review or FV preselection process) and (2) you do not have hundreds of active tasks, just tasks for next 7-14 days, you do not have to bother with exact system how to work with projects and where to put tasks, almost anything works and all dependencies, lacking tasks etc become obvious.
Also what is important - you do not have to make "next action" in GTD sense - for me it is often even counterproductive. Define so big tasks, that they are not anxiety provoking yet, but on the other hand they still have meaning, drive and motivation for you. For me it means task "reinstall windows" rather than "find install CD somewhere in the CD box"
August 4, 2012 at 9:44 |
Daneb
Daneb
Thanks for sharing your experience, guys!
Looking back at my experience with SuperFocus, a couple of Autofocus versions and GTD (both paper and OneNote based), I think approach of project pages + hot tasks can/should be as just task in the task list could fit me best.
It might be a challenge to figure out how big project does need an own project page (I don't want to go there and back too often) and how not to forget that after doing the project's hot task I should have a look at the project again. But, well, doesn't look like too big of a challenge - maybe I figure out practices that work well for me.
P.S.
It's a pity that Moleskine notebooks have only one bookmark strip, not two. I always want to bookmark current active task list page and a start of project pages :)
Looking back at my experience with SuperFocus, a couple of Autofocus versions and GTD (both paper and OneNote based), I think approach of project pages + hot tasks can/should be as just task in the task list could fit me best.
It might be a challenge to figure out how big project does need an own project page (I don't want to go there and back too often) and how not to forget that after doing the project's hot task I should have a look at the project again. But, well, doesn't look like too big of a challenge - maybe I figure out practices that work well for me.
P.S.
It's a pity that Moleskine notebooks have only one bookmark strip, not two. I always want to bookmark current active task list page and a start of project pages :)
August 4, 2012 at 12:45 |
Artem Marchenko
Artem Marchenko
Artem, I have one rule which helps me with challenge of switching between main and project list: Immediately after having finished any project task and having crossed it out, create new project task in the main list.
It means that (1) I do not have to check whether I have active tasks with all active projects defined. (2) I do not have to check separated project list after EVERY finishing of project task - just when I do not know or I am not sure which task to continue with (or during periodic review).
It means that (1) I do not have to check whether I have active tasks with all active projects defined. (2) I do not have to check separated project list after EVERY finishing of project task - just when I do not know or I am not sure which task to continue with (or during periodic review).
August 4, 2012 at 19:30 |
Daneb
Daneb
Daneb, I am trying to do the same, yet somehow at times I manage to forget about the need to create a new task or check the project page :)
August 4, 2012 at 19:35 |
Artem Marchenko
Artem Marchenko
My opinion is that every system has some lack and the real problem is not about the system itself but about the tendancy Of all Of us To mixt Managing and acting.
Gtd has identyfy some crucial rules about Managing
Ie
- collect
- analyse
- review
About action
There were some lack
Process
Next action
Do
Mf took the problem on the opposit ie acting First but he has made an acting machine for whatever what and mixing everything. The result is a good acting machine but sometime a great loose of time because we dont work on a all project at a batch and has there is no priorities we dont do the most important things first.
There is no perfect solution.
There is a rule which helps me ie separating things
I have divided the list in part
The first is the general list were everything is listed
It is a collect tool
The secont is the apple note were i thibg about things but dont put any tasks
The third is the recall list were thing are organised by lists i put there all what i plan per day and priority.
All is on my iphone and is synchroniaed on my ipad and my mac
Then whith this system i have 3 real tools
One is for collecting and sorting and keeping historicall action ie taskpaper
One is for thinking about projects and deciding were i go ie apple notes
One is for acting each day with a sort by day or by list ie apple tasks
And of course my diary (ical) for my dead lines
This works ok
It is better than omnifocus were all was centralized
And finished completely un managable.
Hope thats help
Gtd has identyfy some crucial rules about Managing
Ie
- collect
- analyse
- review
About action
There were some lack
Process
Next action
Do
Mf took the problem on the opposit ie acting First but he has made an acting machine for whatever what and mixing everything. The result is a good acting machine but sometime a great loose of time because we dont work on a all project at a batch and has there is no priorities we dont do the most important things first.
There is no perfect solution.
There is a rule which helps me ie separating things
I have divided the list in part
The first is the general list were everything is listed
It is a collect tool
The secont is the apple note were i thibg about things but dont put any tasks
The third is the recall list were thing are organised by lists i put there all what i plan per day and priority.
All is on my iphone and is synchroniaed on my ipad and my mac
Then whith this system i have 3 real tools
One is for collecting and sorting and keeping historicall action ie taskpaper
One is for thinking about projects and deciding were i go ie apple notes
One is for acting each day with a sort by day or by list ie apple tasks
And of course my diary (ical) for my dead lines
This works ok
It is better than omnifocus were all was centralized
And finished completely un managable.
Hope thats help
August 5, 2012 at 10:32 |
Jupiter
Jupiter
- Some of them are small and have tasks known in advance. E.g. monthly accounting consists of just few well known small steps
- Some are medium-sized. E.g. Implement yet another web-site feature, during the process a couple of surprise tasks can happen and maybe another project will be identified
- Some of them are hug, only a couple of starting tasks are clear in the beginning and many smaller projects can originate from it. E.g. design and then implement a new company strategy for the next half-a-year
I wonder how you manage small-medium-huge and clear-sort_of_clear-completely_unclear projects with FV.
Sure, everybody's practices can be different, I am just asking about your experience and maybe for a bit of context to see how FV can be used in this or that situation.
- Do all your projects have a single FV task entry ("yet another step in Project X") and maybe completely separate notes/pages for project itself?
- Do you list all the elementary tasks known and hope that you won't forget adding new ones ("strategy workshop", "discuss strategy with CEO" and later - "process workshop notes")?
- A random mix of the above approaches?
- Something completely different?