FV and FVP Forum > Returning to work; any tips for incorporating FV?
Don't let the list get too big. That is all.
August 25, 2012 at 15:37 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I've been using FV at work, combined with DIT to help me get a better sense of "a day's work" that FV alone doesn't provide. At work I have many different projects. I keep the project details in OneNote, and just enter the name of the project on my DIT/FV list, perhaps with a note of one of the most pressing tasks related to that project. It's working very well.
To add to Alan's response... Some of us have found it *impossible* to keep the FV list from getting too big, with the rules as they are written.
So, some people (including Mark Forster) have introduced a recurring "Weed List" task.
AndreasE has added a dismissal rule to FV ( http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1932921 ).
Personally, I've gone to using DIT in a notebook, and processing my DIT list with the FV algorithm ( http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1854855#post1882690 and http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1900291#post1907490 ).
So, if you have ever had the problem of your FV or SF lists getting too long or bogged down, you may want to consider one of these tweaks / alternatives.
Come to think of it, this topic is probably worth its own thread, so I started one: http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1935865
To add to Alan's response... Some of us have found it *impossible* to keep the FV list from getting too big, with the rules as they are written.
So, some people (including Mark Forster) have introduced a recurring "Weed List" task.
AndreasE has added a dismissal rule to FV ( http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1932921 ).
Personally, I've gone to using DIT in a notebook, and processing my DIT list with the FV algorithm ( http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1854855#post1882690 and http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1900291#post1907490 ).
So, if you have ever had the problem of your FV or SF lists getting too long or bogged down, you may want to consider one of these tweaks / alternatives.
Come to think of it, this topic is probably worth its own thread, so I started one: http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1935865
August 25, 2012 at 17:37 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
As matters come at up in situations where you are answerable to the sense of urgency of others, things can be added to an existing chain as you work. I find that on crazy days, its all that I do, adding things to just one chain as matters fly in. Perfectly legitimate, although stress creeps in thinking about what you may be missing on the list.
When sanity returns, I try to see if i could have avoided some of the chain add-ons, and remember it the next time something of a similar nature comes in an effort to reclaim my own time. Otherwise, just let it pass, pat yourself on the back and thank FV that you have got through the day in one piece. :)
When sanity returns, I try to see if i could have avoided some of the chain add-ons, and remember it the next time something of a similar nature comes in an effort to reclaim my own time. Otherwise, just let it pass, pat yourself on the back and thank FV that you have got through the day in one piece. :)
August 25, 2012 at 17:48 |
JD
JD
Kate:
I added a time-based FV dismissal process to AndreasE's post referenced above by Seraphim. That way if you choose to use dismissal with FV, you have a choice in the level of pressure used in the process.
I added a time-based FV dismissal process to AndreasE's post referenced above by Seraphim. That way if you choose to use dismissal with FV, you have a choice in the level of pressure used in the process.
August 25, 2012 at 23:49 |
Michael B.
Michael B.
I used FV for a while, and found the lack of prioritization to be a problem, so I tweaked it to create the Prioritized FV variant:
http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1806263
While I did find Prioritized FV to be more effective (for me) than standard FV, I ultimately found myself resisting the core mechanism of FV (making chains then executing them):
http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1900291
After experimenting with my own AF1 variant, I switched to nuntym's AF2ND and added a similar priority tweak to create AF2ND+, both of which are described here:
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1908142
While AF2ND+ feels like the best system I've used yet, it's only been a couple days and I don't know yet whether it will stand the test of time.
Good luck with FV, maybe it will be a better fit for you than it was for me. If you find that FV isn't working for you, I'd recommend trying either AF2ND or AF2ND+, depending on how you feel about prioritization vs. simplicity.
http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1806263
While I did find Prioritized FV to be more effective (for me) than standard FV, I ultimately found myself resisting the core mechanism of FV (making chains then executing them):
http://www.markforster.net/fv-forum/post/1900291
After experimenting with my own AF1 variant, I switched to nuntym's AF2ND and added a similar priority tweak to create AF2ND+, both of which are described here:
http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1908142
While AF2ND+ feels like the best system I've used yet, it's only been a couple days and I don't know yet whether it will stand the test of time.
Good luck with FV, maybe it will be a better fit for you than it was for me. If you find that FV isn't working for you, I'd recommend trying either AF2ND or AF2ND+, depending on how you feel about prioritization vs. simplicity.
August 27, 2012 at 14:40 |
Deven
Deven
Wow lots of comments and additional reading. I'll add this thread to my FV list to make sure I read everything.
I'm very interested in the list getting too long because that is what is happening with mine at home, but I put that down to looking after kids, doing tasks from tickler file first and putting everything into the list including emails and webpages to read in detail. Definitely something that I will look out for when I return to work. How long do you think it will take to go from 0 tasks to 100, 200, 300??
I used GTD years ago and did like the feeling of control provided by the weekly review. Maybe I should consider implementing that again and doing a weeding of the list then.
I'm very interested in the list getting too long because that is what is happening with mine at home, but I put that down to looking after kids, doing tasks from tickler file first and putting everything into the list including emails and webpages to read in detail. Definitely something that I will look out for when I return to work. How long do you think it will take to go from 0 tasks to 100, 200, 300??
I used GTD years ago and did like the feeling of control provided by the weekly review. Maybe I should consider implementing that again and doing a weeding of the list then.
August 29, 2012 at 9:43 |
Kate Davis
Kate Davis
I find a week is too long between reviews. I look at:
- my grid of goals for each project, broken down by week -- just this and maybe next week's line
- my list of weekly and monthly recurring tasks
- my list of irregular, non-project tasks
- and, sometimes, my list of annual recurring tasks due this month. (I copy the next few week's worth into my irregular list
Trust your coworkers. They did fine without you. You can take a few weeks easing back into your job. Start by taking back the jobs your coworkers found an imposition. Also look at the changes your coworkers made. Chances are they streamlined things and junior coworkers earned more authority. Don't revert to the old inefficient way!
Focus on establishing your core routines and the parts of your job others rely on. Once those are solid, you'll have more time for advanced work like reading articles.
As a young engineer, I asked my boss which of the several trade magazines on my desk were worth reading. He almost laughed. "None of them. They're filled with advertisements. There might be one or two articles in each that have something interesting." Even those few turned out to be of interest only to the advanced engineers. I needed to learn about the castings we made, not the
Most magazines and websites recycle the same information every few years. Sometimes the fresh take on it is useful -- but not when you're still establishing your core routines.
Most email is worse -- you need to actually think about it and make an intelligent reply -- or do you? Will your input be valuable to the rest of the group? Would they have made a good decision the week before you returned? Probably yes. Do you have enough current information to have an informed opinion? If not, don't spend time writing one.
If there are many emails on a topic, it might be faster to talk to a trusted coworker. Most email conversations rehash the same things and get pulled off topic and take forever to go nowhere. Multi-tasking by multiple brains! (One of my guilds is changing location, and the old name included the name of the location. Dozens of emails explaining why we should keep the old name. Finally, the chair of the transition committee pointed to an early email. The committee had already decided we'd keep the old name for the near future, but add "meeting at", He also reminded us we had more important things to actually do, like advertising in time for it to do any good.)
Recognize that older emails are less valuable. Things will have changed, or even resolved. Also, many details or opinions aren't in email, so you still need to talk to your coworker.
Instead of listing each article or website, create a series of closed backlogs. I like by month of arrival. My big list includes a single little-and-often task "July clippings". When that's done, it will change to "August's clippings". If October rolls around and July's clippings still aren't read, I need to make some decisions.
Learn to speed-read. My first question is always "How carefully do I need to read this paragraph?" If it's well-written, you can answer that within the first few words of the paragraph.
I'm not saying I don't get caught up in the frenzy of reading everything that crosses my desk, at the expense of my core job, just that those observations and questions often help me out of it.
- my grid of goals for each project, broken down by week -- just this and maybe next week's line
- my list of weekly and monthly recurring tasks
- my list of irregular, non-project tasks
- and, sometimes, my list of annual recurring tasks due this month. (I copy the next few week's worth into my irregular list
Trust your coworkers. They did fine without you. You can take a few weeks easing back into your job. Start by taking back the jobs your coworkers found an imposition. Also look at the changes your coworkers made. Chances are they streamlined things and junior coworkers earned more authority. Don't revert to the old inefficient way!
Focus on establishing your core routines and the parts of your job others rely on. Once those are solid, you'll have more time for advanced work like reading articles.
As a young engineer, I asked my boss which of the several trade magazines on my desk were worth reading. He almost laughed. "None of them. They're filled with advertisements. There might be one or two articles in each that have something interesting." Even those few turned out to be of interest only to the advanced engineers. I needed to learn about the castings we made, not the
Most magazines and websites recycle the same information every few years. Sometimes the fresh take on it is useful -- but not when you're still establishing your core routines.
Most email is worse -- you need to actually think about it and make an intelligent reply -- or do you? Will your input be valuable to the rest of the group? Would they have made a good decision the week before you returned? Probably yes. Do you have enough current information to have an informed opinion? If not, don't spend time writing one.
If there are many emails on a topic, it might be faster to talk to a trusted coworker. Most email conversations rehash the same things and get pulled off topic and take forever to go nowhere. Multi-tasking by multiple brains! (One of my guilds is changing location, and the old name included the name of the location. Dozens of emails explaining why we should keep the old name. Finally, the chair of the transition committee pointed to an early email. The committee had already decided we'd keep the old name for the near future, but add "meeting at", He also reminded us we had more important things to actually do, like advertising in time for it to do any good.)
Recognize that older emails are less valuable. Things will have changed, or even resolved. Also, many details or opinions aren't in email, so you still need to talk to your coworker.
Instead of listing each article or website, create a series of closed backlogs. I like by month of arrival. My big list includes a single little-and-often task "July clippings". When that's done, it will change to "August's clippings". If October rolls around and July's clippings still aren't read, I need to make some decisions.
Learn to speed-read. My first question is always "How carefully do I need to read this paragraph?" If it's well-written, you can answer that within the first few words of the paragraph.
I'm not saying I don't get caught up in the frenzy of reading everything that crosses my desk, at the expense of my core job, just that those observations and questions often help me out of it.
August 29, 2012 at 17:37 |
Cricket
Cricket
@Kate Davis - << I'm very interested in the list getting too long because that is what is happening with mine at home >>
I think an ever-growing list is a sign of overcommitment. You need to deal with the overcommitment somehow - delegate, cut back, rehtink your priorities, etc.
I am struggling with this at home, also, but not so much at work. At work, I can negotiate priorities with my manager, and if he allows me to cut something, I just cut it and don't worry about it -- it's my manager's job to worry about it. At home, it's mainly myself, and to some degree my wife, with whom I need to negotiate. And there are just so many things we'd like to do in this short time we have on earth... Much harder to draw that line and say "no more". From a TM perspective, DIT is helping me tremendously -- I'm getting a much better sense of my limits.
<< putting everything into the list including emails and webpages to read in detail >>
I used to do this too. I liked how AF and FV would sift and sort these items along with everything else. But it caused too much clutter. I am much happier now keeping it separate. Here is what I do:
- Ask a question -- If I never get around to reading this email (or website, or magazine), will it have an impact? Will I be neglecting some action item? Is anyone expecting a response?
- If yes, then it's a real task, not just reading. I put these on my list. They get processed with other tasks.
- If no, then it's just background reading.
For paper background reading (magazines, newsletters), I have a shelf: I just put the most recent items on top of the shelf. When I want to read something, I just look through the first few items till I find something interesting. If the shelf starts to get full, I throw the bottom half into the trash - much of it unread.
For websites, I use Pocket (http://getpocket.com). (Formerly Read It Later). Works great.
For emails, I use Gmail, so it works with Pocket.
When I want to read something, I just scan the most recent items till I find something interesting. For variety, you can start from the oldest items, or just ask Pocket to serve you up a random item from your list.
Pocket never gets full, so I don't need to delete anything. But I still need to ask, "Will it matter if I never see this item again?" If throwing the items away, or never seeing the item again, makes you nervous, then it doesn't belong in a background reading list like this: it probably belongs in your task list.
<< How long do you think it will take to go from 0 tasks to 100, 200, 300?? >>
That definitely depends on the person! I can generate 100 tasks in AF1 or FV in one day, easy. I can get to 300 tasks in one week. Most normal people are not overcommitted scanners like I am, though.
I think an ever-growing list is a sign of overcommitment. You need to deal with the overcommitment somehow - delegate, cut back, rehtink your priorities, etc.
I am struggling with this at home, also, but not so much at work. At work, I can negotiate priorities with my manager, and if he allows me to cut something, I just cut it and don't worry about it -- it's my manager's job to worry about it. At home, it's mainly myself, and to some degree my wife, with whom I need to negotiate. And there are just so many things we'd like to do in this short time we have on earth... Much harder to draw that line and say "no more". From a TM perspective, DIT is helping me tremendously -- I'm getting a much better sense of my limits.
<< putting everything into the list including emails and webpages to read in detail >>
I used to do this too. I liked how AF and FV would sift and sort these items along with everything else. But it caused too much clutter. I am much happier now keeping it separate. Here is what I do:
- Ask a question -- If I never get around to reading this email (or website, or magazine), will it have an impact? Will I be neglecting some action item? Is anyone expecting a response?
- If yes, then it's a real task, not just reading. I put these on my list. They get processed with other tasks.
- If no, then it's just background reading.
For paper background reading (magazines, newsletters), I have a shelf: I just put the most recent items on top of the shelf. When I want to read something, I just look through the first few items till I find something interesting. If the shelf starts to get full, I throw the bottom half into the trash - much of it unread.
For websites, I use Pocket (http://getpocket.com). (Formerly Read It Later). Works great.
For emails, I use Gmail, so it works with Pocket.
When I want to read something, I just scan the most recent items till I find something interesting. For variety, you can start from the oldest items, or just ask Pocket to serve you up a random item from your list.
Pocket never gets full, so I don't need to delete anything. But I still need to ask, "Will it matter if I never see this item again?" If throwing the items away, or never seeing the item again, makes you nervous, then it doesn't belong in a background reading list like this: it probably belongs in your task list.
<< How long do you think it will take to go from 0 tasks to 100, 200, 300?? >>
That definitely depends on the person! I can generate 100 tasks in AF1 or FV in one day, easy. I can get to 300 tasks in one week. Most normal people are not overcommitted scanners like I am, though.
August 29, 2012 at 23:28 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Hmmm I posted a reply to this a week or so ago, but it appears it never added; can I remember what I said?
When I return I don't actually know what work I'll be going back to. I work for a consultancy so all the projects may have changed. I may find myself thrown onto a big project that takes up most of my time or I may be doing bits on lots of things until a big opportunity comes my way. Either way I know it is essential to get the routine set up because it will mean I know where I am and everything else will be smoother.
The first thing I'll be doing is moving all the emails I've recieved over the last year into a backlog folder, I suspect most of them will be irrelevant so I'll work through them but not prioritise them.
I like the idea of having a folder for things to read each month. I used to to Instapaper, if I'm out of the office lots and I'm given the technology it maybe worth doing something similar so I can my reading matter for train reading.
I've had a review of my home list and deleted some tasks, but also had serious thoughts about what are my priorities at the moment and anything low priority I've moved to a future folder. For instance dealing with the photographs and video I take; my priority is to sort out all our 2012 pictures and make two photo books of the year, therefore I have moved all the video editing tasks to my future lists. My list is shorter and I feel more focussed but I haven't completely removed the video task so I can add it to the list in future.
When I return I don't actually know what work I'll be going back to. I work for a consultancy so all the projects may have changed. I may find myself thrown onto a big project that takes up most of my time or I may be doing bits on lots of things until a big opportunity comes my way. Either way I know it is essential to get the routine set up because it will mean I know where I am and everything else will be smoother.
The first thing I'll be doing is moving all the emails I've recieved over the last year into a backlog folder, I suspect most of them will be irrelevant so I'll work through them but not prioritise them.
I like the idea of having a folder for things to read each month. I used to to Instapaper, if I'm out of the office lots and I'm given the technology it maybe worth doing something similar so I can my reading matter for train reading.
I've had a review of my home list and deleted some tasks, but also had serious thoughts about what are my priorities at the moment and anything low priority I've moved to a future folder. For instance dealing with the photographs and video I take; my priority is to sort out all our 2012 pictures and make two photo books of the year, therefore I have moved all the video editing tasks to my future lists. My list is shorter and I feel more focussed but I haven't completely removed the video task so I can add it to the list in future.
September 17, 2012 at 15:00 |
Kate Davis
Kate Davis
Hi Kate,
thanks for the suggestion on making a photo book of the year, I'll try that too to do *something* with all the pictures I take.
thanks for the suggestion on making a photo book of the year, I'll try that too to do *something* with all the pictures I take.
September 17, 2012 at 15:36 |
Nicole
Nicole
Good luck Kate! Everything you say here makes sense. Start your list from 0 and get acquainted with the things you will be doing. Write the things you need to do into a single list, starting with all the small things to get your routine going.
"Backlog" can be one of your tasks, but mainly that will be to read over the list and delete stuff. I also have a task to "manage list", to ensure it doesn't get overgrown.
If you're doing big projects, keep your projects organized and don't dump all the project's todo's into your FV list; just the ones you will do next.
"Backlog" can be one of your tasks, but mainly that will be to read over the list and delete stuff. I also have a task to "manage list", to ensure it doesn't get overgrown.
If you're doing big projects, keep your projects organized and don't dump all the project's todo's into your FV list; just the ones you will do next.
September 18, 2012 at 16:38 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I'm half a day in and so far it is going well. I have already finished 3 chains of tasks. Oh yes that is because my list is incredibly small (I started with 2 tasks). It seems the solution to a list that keeps growing is to reduce commitments; so the real question is not how to be more productive but how to say no to your boss.
Fingers crossed my list will be so good in a week, month and years time.
Fingers crossed my list will be so good in a week, month and years time.
October 8, 2012 at 13:45 |
Kate Davis
Kate Davis
Obviously after a year anything left on my old task list will not be relevant so I will be starting with a completely empty task list; what a luxury. So I can maximise this zero starting position I'm interested in any advice people have their experience of using FV at work.