FV and FVP Forum > Alternative Version FV - A Forgotten Gem?
You make a compelling case for FV-AV! I especially like the idea that in each chain, you're not only attending to the easy things, but you're also not letting them take over, and by emphasizing the "biggest frogs" first, there's a sense in which the list is always "easier" after each time you take action on the list. That's a neat property.
May 21, 2022 at 18:44 |
Aaron Hsu
Aaron Hsu
Belacqua:
<< It seems to have been unjustly overlooked. >>
In fact I've used it myself quite a few times over the years. It's particularly good for getting oneself unstuck.
The main disadvantage is that it doesn't get the easy stuff done quickly (or sometimes at all). The fact that something is easy doesn't mean that it isn't necessary.
Another problem is that sometimes you know without even looking at the list which task/project it is that you are resisting the most.- and you start resisting even looking at the list.
This can be overcome by methods like Mel Robbin's 5,4,3,2,1 method or by timing techniques such as the five-second rule.
The great advantage of FV-AV is that once you've got moving on the "black clouds" your resistance to everything collapses, and you find yourself in a state in which you can actually get things done when they need doing. At that stage it's important not to get carried away and overload the list with shiny new projects.
<< It seems to have been unjustly overlooked. >>
In fact I've used it myself quite a few times over the years. It's particularly good for getting oneself unstuck.
The main disadvantage is that it doesn't get the easy stuff done quickly (or sometimes at all). The fact that something is easy doesn't mean that it isn't necessary.
Another problem is that sometimes you know without even looking at the list which task/project it is that you are resisting the most.- and you start resisting even looking at the list.
This can be overcome by methods like Mel Robbin's 5,4,3,2,1 method or by timing techniques such as the five-second rule.
The great advantage of FV-AV is that once you've got moving on the "black clouds" your resistance to everything collapses, and you find yourself in a state in which you can actually get things done when they need doing. At that stage it's important not to get carried away and overload the list with shiny new projects.
May 22, 2022 at 8:55 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I'll add a few thoughts to my original post.
Urgent Tasks:
FV-AV handles urgent tasks better than I expected in my initial review. Dotting a task and moving it to the end of the list enables you to do an urgent task whenever you want to. In fact, it can be a little too easy to get pulled by an "urgent" task.
I rarely found that the FV-AV chain had to be re-selected after an urgent task. The high-resistance tasks in the preselection retained their value despite the interruptions.
"Easy" Tasks:
Of course, Mark is right that FV-AV is much less quick to address easy tasks compared to other long-list systems. One possible amendment that crossed my mind would be to dot the first *two* tasks on the list when preselecting, rather than the first task (as in FV). Then, one takes the second task as the benchmark for "What am I resisting more than X?" I haven't tested this, and it may be inelegant. The idea would be to boost the FIFO processing power in order to handle the easy tasks.
Unfinished tasks:
This may be obvious, but it only occurred to me belatedly that FV-AV does not identify (or mark for special treatment) unfinished tasks. (The same is true of FV.) This may or may not be a problem. I take note of it since I want to emphasize finishing difficult tasks. It will be interesting to compare FV-AV to other systems I'm considering which do emphasize finishing tasks: e.g., AF4-3T, Ultimate Time Management System Improved, etc.
Conclusion:
Overall, this system got me wanting to work on difficult tasks--a remarkable feat after a recent, serious bout of procrastination. I really like the combination of resistance principle + long list, but it is difficult to design such a system due to the easy-task problem that Mark identified. The processing of urgent tasks and unfinished tasks is also a consideration. I may return to FV-AV after experimenting with some other systems.
Urgent Tasks:
FV-AV handles urgent tasks better than I expected in my initial review. Dotting a task and moving it to the end of the list enables you to do an urgent task whenever you want to. In fact, it can be a little too easy to get pulled by an "urgent" task.
I rarely found that the FV-AV chain had to be re-selected after an urgent task. The high-resistance tasks in the preselection retained their value despite the interruptions.
"Easy" Tasks:
Of course, Mark is right that FV-AV is much less quick to address easy tasks compared to other long-list systems. One possible amendment that crossed my mind would be to dot the first *two* tasks on the list when preselecting, rather than the first task (as in FV). Then, one takes the second task as the benchmark for "What am I resisting more than X?" I haven't tested this, and it may be inelegant. The idea would be to boost the FIFO processing power in order to handle the easy tasks.
Unfinished tasks:
This may be obvious, but it only occurred to me belatedly that FV-AV does not identify (or mark for special treatment) unfinished tasks. (The same is true of FV.) This may or may not be a problem. I take note of it since I want to emphasize finishing difficult tasks. It will be interesting to compare FV-AV to other systems I'm considering which do emphasize finishing tasks: e.g., AF4-3T, Ultimate Time Management System Improved, etc.
Conclusion:
Overall, this system got me wanting to work on difficult tasks--a remarkable feat after a recent, serious bout of procrastination. I really like the combination of resistance principle + long list, but it is difficult to design such a system due to the easy-task problem that Mark identified. The processing of urgent tasks and unfinished tasks is also a consideration. I may return to FV-AV after experimenting with some other systems.
May 30, 2022 at 17:40 |
Belacqua
Belacqua
P.S. On second thought: if I were to try my suggestion of dotting the first two tasks in FV-AV, the benchmark task would need to be whichever of the two tasks produced greater resistance. And one would need to do the tasks in decreasing-resistance order even if that is not the list order. Otherwise, the task ladder would be messed up. The idea now seems a little awkward.
May 31, 2022 at 3:52 |
Belacqua
Belacqua
I suggest: Start with the task you want to do most. It’s probably near the end. Scan backwards and loop around asking the question until you reach your starting point. Now you have a carrot at the end of your string of resisted tasks.
May 31, 2022 at 14:01 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan,
Normally, I prefer to stick to Mark's systems as written. (For me, it's easier/better that way.) But that strikes me as a good suggestion much in the spirit of the original. You could also keep the original scanning direction: scan forwards to pre-select, then do the tasks in reverse order.
Normally, I prefer to stick to Mark's systems as written. (For me, it's easier/better that way.) But that strikes me as a good suggestion much in the spirit of the original. You could also keep the original scanning direction: scan forwards to pre-select, then do the tasks in reverse order.
June 4, 2022 at 3:26 |
Belacqua
Belacqua
This happened to me this week when I tried Alternative Version FV (I'll call it FV-AV) for the first time. For some reason, I never gave FV-AV a shot until now. Apparently, I'm not the only one. The search bar retrieves maybe 2 or 3 threads on this system. It seems to have been unjustly overlooked.
I'm writing this post to bring the system to others' attention, since FV-AV may help them. Granted, I can't really evaluate the system after a few days--but it seems to be a remarkable (and unusual) system.
FV-AV is a long-list system based on the "Resistance Principle": doing what you resist most. Other long-list systems based on this idea are the Colley's Rule/Resistance Principle system and "A Simple and Powerful Method." I haven't tried those. I'm not sure they would be as flexible as FV-AV (more on that below). (Instructions for all systems are on the TM Systems page.)
FV-AV uses the same rules as FV except that the question is "What am I resisting more than X?" I've found this to be a powerful way of processing a long list. The system appears to promise a holy grail of sorts: universal capture and review of tasks without the temptation to choose easy tasks or distractions. I've actually found using FV-AV quite liberating because I can put a fun task on the list knowing that the algorithm won't choose it (unless it is the first task or very near the front of the list).
The FV rules that are carried over into FV-AV give the system some flexibility. Because of the first task rule in FV, easy tasks will eventually be taken care of. And since the first task on the list might be very easy, the second dotted task may also be relatively easy, so long as you resist it more that the first. So the system does not involve only doing difficult tasks. Also, urgent tasks can be handled reasonably well (as in FV) by moving the tasks to the end of the list and dotting them. FV and FV-AV are not the best systems for urgent tasks but those tasks do get handled.
Lately, I've been attracted to Mark's systems which involve a more disciplined approach since I've been struggling with procrastination. I'm glad I stumbled on FV-AV.
I found the following points helpful during my trial of FV-AV. Good luck to anyone else who wants to give this a go.
1. From the FV-AV instructions:
<< Note that there should be a definite step up in the amount you are resisting each task for every link in the chain. Don't string together tasks for which you feel much the same amount of resistance. >>
2. (From a 2013 thread):
Seraphim:
<< I remember trying this approach when you suggested it somewhere else a couple years ago (choosing what you are resisting most), although it used a different algorithm. I ran into troubles with it, because sometimes I was resisting doing something because it really didn't need doing. I had a hard time distinguishing these items from "the very things you need to do in order to take your business and/or your life forward". >>
Mark Forster:
<< My feeling is that you should still take action on the task but remember that one way of taking action is to delete without doing! >>
http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2013/6/9/a-simple-and-powerful-method.html
3. (From the same 2013 thread):
Daneb:
<< @Seraphim ("sometimes I was resisting something (what)...didn't need doing.") - I had similar experience + sometimes the most resisted tasks also could not be started (tasks with different context etc.). >>
Mark Forster:
<< The full version of the question is "What am I most resisting doing right now?" This obviously doesn't include things which for one reason or another you can't do right now. >>