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Discussion Forum > Time Surfing by Paul Loomans

I haven't found a lot of information about Paul Loomans' Time Surfing concept here. I notice that at least one person has tried it and actually likes it a lot, but I'm wondering what others think of it.

The 7 rules are pretty straightforward:

1. Do one thing at a time, and finish what you are doing.
2. Be aware of what you are doing and accept it.
3. Create breathers between activities.
4. Give your full attention to drop-ins, creating a relationship with everything you want to do.
5. Become aware of "gnawing rats" and transform them into "white sheep."
6. Observe background programs.
7. Use your intuition when choosing what to do.

I'd say that 1 - 3 are not often practiced but are pretty straightforward. 4 - 6 are specific applications of 1 - 3 to interruptions, worrying about future tasks, and emotional/mental baggage that is hanging around, respectively. The approach to each is the same, which is to give them full attention and then fully visualize (in the mind sculpture sense) doing anything you intend to do in the future and let yourself trust that you are going to do it.

The 7th is very akin to a mix between the Dreams method and Predicting Your Day. The idea is that you may write things down to de-stress your mind or keep it as an emergency reminder of some sort in a list, but you "dismiss it" in the sense that you don't work from those lists, and the intent is to gradually reduce or eliminate the use of those lists over time as you come to trust your intuition more.

Also like the Dreams method, it assumes that you'll be doing something to provide a better clarity and awareness to your intuition to enable it to make good decisions. In this case, it's rules 1 - 6 that are designed to support your intuitive decision making, while in Dreams it's the What's Better list, Self-coaching, and the Goal Achievement Method.

His book provides some general advice on Email (some of it a little dated, IMO), smartphones, and the like, but the rules are the main thrust of his small manual.

Personally, I find that I've already been or started doing 1 - 6 pretty well, and I can fully endorse them. The main question I have is whether I really think 7 is the way to go or not.

Perhaps from a philosophical standpoint, the main novelty that I see in Time Surfing is the design of a system to first cultivate and train inner calm, which is then used to drive productivity/effectiveness. Most other systems are the opposite, in that they try to cultivate calm via increases in effectiveness, productivity, or organization. Time Surfing proposes Calm as the basis via Trust, while, say GTD, proposes Control and Perspective, and Mark's systems vary.

I wonder just how effective this may or may not be relative to other fully intuitive approaches or ones that help to control stress via limits (closed list systems like Personal Kanban, Ivy Lee, AF, FV, No List, &c.).
February 6, 2022 at 12:56 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
Aaron - I'm unable to find the the thread, but I created a post about this book a couple of years ago. A few of the regulars on this site took to the material.

I reread Time Surfing a few months ago. The main idea I borrowed, and use today, is to do away with lists of any kind.
February 6, 2022 at 14:27 | Registered Commenteravrum
I'm not familiar with the book. All I know is what you've posted here.

My first thought was that Mark's "Simplest Form of No-List" (writing down the next thing before doing it) might be an easier way to achieve 1-7.

Though, in your description, rule 7 sounds more open-ended: you can write down more than one thing (as a mnemonic), kind of like "Another Little Method Variation 1" http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2612782 . But the general idea seems to be to work toward no list at all (which has its own attractions).

I'm less convinced by the comparison to Dreams. From your description, there is nothing like the future vision, which is the lynchpin of the whole Dreams system. In Time Surfing, intuition seems to be restricted to the task level ("What am I going to do next?").
February 6, 2022 at 15:17 | Registered CommenterBelacqua
avrum:

<<http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2733920>>

If you don't mind me asking, with what did you replace your lists? If you aren't following the main 1-6 instructions and just #7, what are you using to drive your actions?

I assume that for whatever reason you found that you didn't jive with the other 1-6 instructions?
February 7, 2022 at 1:45 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
Belacqua:

The reason that it is compared to Dreams is because both methods rely heavily on using no active time management lists (both encourage temporary overview or commitment lists) and instead seek to drive future intention and reality into the psyche strongly enough to steer present action. Instructions focus heavily on a Future Vision mechanic, while instruction 2 is primarily driven by a "Present Reality" mechanic. In a sense, Dreams requires are very clear awareness, and Time surfying also relies on this.

Time Surfing does deviate from Dreams in how it approaches this. Dreams is very "Future focused" with the Future Vision and self-coaching, while Time Surfing is essentially taking a less future-driven focus by encouraging more Trust and mental cultivation of living directly in the present moment and embracing a present reality with deep awareness, even if that action is something that is helping to prepare for a future action or vision.
February 7, 2022 at 1:51 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
I love time surfing, and I usually alternate between random and time surfing. In fact, I think I'm going back to time surfing for a while, might even stick with that for my Lenten "observance." Both have advantages. I love time surfing for the speed at which I can respond to people, the feeling of being "in the moment," and the reduction in stress, especially as time goes on and I regain confidence with my intuition. (It takes a while to let go of the comfort of a list, so for the first few days anyway I have a lingering feeling like I might be forgetting something important. I've never missed anything important so that lingering feeling passes after a while.) So why would I go back to random? There is an excitement about random that is missing in time surfing, random is like the opposite of procrastination. I can't wait to see what I'm doing next. While I don't procrastinate, I don't feel as driven as I do with random. Also, this is important, I find there are things on my random list that I just don't think I would bother with through time surfing. But I'm not sure. I mentioned this before in another post, I think, but I feel like I get more done with random, or at least a wider variety of things done. But perhaps time surfing has more depth? AF4 with random is just not going to work for me, btw (from another post).
February 7, 2022 at 1:53 | Unregistered CommenterPaul MacNeil
Aaron:

<<If you don't mind me asking, with what did you replace your lists? If you aren't following the main 1-6 instructions and just #7, what are you using to drive your actions?>>

Professionally, I'm a family/marriage therapist in private practice. 95% of my work is predictable, and systematized.

Ditto for my role as author. My books are on Amazon, and that's that.

My podcast requires a bit of prep, but the show happens at the same day/time every week.

Novel projects are on my mind, so I don't need reminders or trigger lists.

The only lists I keep are SIRI generated reminders for off-the-cuff things that need to get done at a certain time.

My entire workflow consists of adding things to a list i.e. things I've done, things I'm thinking about, or working about, observations. At the end of the day, I turn that into a daily narrative in Pages (Mac). I use emoticons in my daily narrative for asethetic and identification purposes: anything that needs to get done = ✅ - whenever I discuss a project, it gets it's own emoticon i.e. Author = 📖 , questions = ❓ , etc.
February 7, 2022 at 2:13 | Registered Commenteravrum
Aaron Hsu:
<< Perhaps from a philosophical standpoint, the main novelty that I see in Time Surfing is the design of a system to first cultivate and train inner calm, which is then used to drive productivity/effectiveness. Most other systems are the opposite >>

That's a good summary.

Avrum's original post is here -- http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2733920

We also had an interesting discussion on it here -- http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2743347

I never tried to follow his rules, since Serial No-List was essentially achieving the same idea for me at the time -- focus on the present, trust your intuition, but still maintain a few supports if you need them.
February 7, 2022 at 5:30 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Aaron Hsu:

<< 7. Use your intuition when choosing what to do...

<< ...The 7th is very akin to a mix between the Dreams method and Predicting Your Day.

And to such questions as "What am I resisting not doing?"
February 7, 2022 at 14:18 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Defining "deed" as Oxford does: an action that is performed intentionally or consciously;
And considering that the question, "What am I resisting not doing?", excludes negative value activities (those are more likely things you resist doing);

I'm thinking an alternate rendering of the question is, "What good deed is calling me?" (Except of course that 'good deed' in this sentence is more broadly scoped than the phrase ordinarily entails.)

Aside from the detail of which noun phrase is most apt, I think this may be a very good "follow your intuition" question.
February 7, 2022 at 19:21 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
There's something I'm pondering as an argument *against* Time Surfing.

David Allen hints at this argument when he basically says, "If you think your mind is a good place for storing your commitments and what you should be doing, then why don't you put your appointment calendar there? If it isn't, then why are you keeping your lists in there?" In other words, he's appealing to an "all or nothing" argument.

While that argument has its flaws, I think there's a point to it. Specifically, we also know that in spaces where we want to have optimal task behaviors, where the primary thing is establishing and executing a sequence of unscheduled tasks that nonetheless have a specific "best order" for execution, where this order is known or can be identified in advance, the checklist reigns supreme, and has had extremely high success in reducing stress and ensuring that mistakes of execution ordering don't get made.

I think the argument Time Surfing makes is that if you are sufficiently engaged with your environments and your surroundings, then your intuition is the best way to select a task, and that the only real good reason for a list or the like is as a slight aid to memory as a double check, but not as a primary reference. The book does make allowances for checklists in some things, and that under exceptionally stressful and busy times, a little more reliance on a list might be natural.

But I'm not sure if that doesn't undermine its own point. On some level, I want to say, "Isn't it even more Zen than following your intuition to allow the tasks to come to you via a list that was either scheduled/selected ahead of time or chosen "for you" in some way? Isn't that even more in the moment?" I'd also point out that many of the more traditional monastic practices all tend to emphasize an ordered, scheduled existence with very clear task assignments and very little "discretionary task loads." I am not sure how that necessarily jives with Time Surfing trying to tap into the natural human behavior.

On that note, natural human behavior *is* to synchronize with time markers and to execute tasks according to the order of natural cycles, which is just saying "according to a schedule." The first things that humans learned and tended to rely on was the calendar, not the todo list, or "intuitive actioning" in the way that I think Time Surfing is pointing out.

That's not to say that these are necessarily convincing arguments, but I just wanted to throw out a counter-argument to the appeal of Time Surfing.

However, I would also want to point out that there seems to be a link between GTD and Time Surfing in terms of the underlying mechanism they are hooking into in order to reduce task anxiety (open loops), which is that research indicating that open loops tend to only cause mental anxiety when they are not granted some plan or commitment, but that just having a plan is sufficient to calm those worries. GTD does this via writing it down and getting to a next action, while Time Surfing does this through task visualization (which essentially demands identifying a next action as well) and mental commitment.
February 8, 2022 at 2:29 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
Aaron --

I think you are finding another way to express the conflict between "explore" (optimize for the flow of attention, engagement, and intuition) and "execute" (optimize for the flow of work).

The "explore vs execute" conflict is just a specific expression of a deeper, more generic conflict:
-- "standing out" vs "just do it already"
-- AF1's "seedbed" vs DIT's "will-do list"
-- intuition vs logic
-- freedom vs security
-- quality vs speed
-- outcomes vs outputs
-- right brain vs left brain
-- chaos vs order
-- unknown vs known
-- change vs inertia

I think the conflict disappears when we find ways to integrate and align these two polarities. The generic conflict has a generic solution: it takes the form of a subordination of execution to exploration. Exploration discovers the meaning and purpose and aspiration -- the WHAT and the WHY. Execution is the HOW of achieving the WHAT and the WHY.

Eli Goldratt and his daughter Efrat Ashlag expressed the conflict as "satisfaction vs security" -- the resolution of the two gives us "happiness". Security exists for the purpose of satisfaction, it is a prerequisite for satisfaction. This seems reminiscent of Maslow's "Hierarchy of Needs".

Jordan Peterson expresses it most basically as "chaos vs order" and the resolution as "meaning" -- "we need to live with one foot in the world of order and the other foot in the world of chaos, and that is how we find meaning".

Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi expressed it as "Challenge vs Skill" and the synthesis is "Flow". ("Challenge" is the thing I must face; unknown; problem, difficulty, the thing to be overcome. "Skill" is what I know how to do; known; experience, background, skill.) Flow happens when both Challenge and Skill are COMPARABLE and HIGH.

Time Surfing focuses almost entirely on the "explore", right-brain side of things, which is hugely valuable but doesn't provide an adequate synthesis with the checklist side of life.
February 8, 2022 at 4:03 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
I think the only problem with listlessness is that there are things that ought to come to your attention but don't.
February 8, 2022 at 15:23 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I've been playing around with this for a few days, and I've come to the conclusion that I like it and can see how it works, but that I'm probably not going to keep using it, because I like having an ordered list better.

This probably has to do with my strong predilection for Order, but even though Time Surfing allows for lists as a memory support, I very much like engaging with and using the tactility of a list and pen and paper to do my work. I also like to have an external spot where I can just go and look and know what I want to do next, without having to spend the mental energies to get there. I don't know that it's strictly more effective, but I think it's more aesthetically pleasing to me, and I like having a journal of these things written down and out there. It's sort of like having a clean desk, but the externalization of my inner vision in the form of a list and schedule feels nice to me, even if I recognize that I don't actually need them.
February 8, 2022 at 16:53 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
<< I think the only problem with listlessness is that there are things that ought to come to your attention but don't. >>

This seems to be a case of too much freedom preventing you from attending to the right things.

My son and I were just discussing the idea how freedom and restriction appear to be in conflict, but the right kind of restriction can increase freedom.

For example, an artist's canvas -- if given total freedom, an endless canvas, endless choice of media and materials -- it can actually be difficult to be creative. When given restrictions -- a specific size and shape of canvas made from a specific material, using a specific media -- it can actually enhance creativity. There are more similar examples at http://buffer.com/resources/7-examples-of-how-creative-constraints-can-lead-to-amazing-work/

Another example is Keith Jarrett's Kohn Concert, where the concert hall staff mistakenly put the wrong piano on the stage, and Jarrett had to come up with some improvisation with severe restrictions. He ended up producing a brilliant improvised performance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_K%C3%B6ln_Concert#Concert_and_recording

Another example is the "Freedom" app that blocks distracting apps like email, Facebook, Twitter, etc., specifically for the purpose of helping you focus on more important things. http://freedom.to/

Mark's systems are very similar -- trying to find just the right amount of structure to free your intuition to work effectively.

All these are examples of introducing restriction for the purpose of greater freedom -- breaking the conflict by subordinating restriction to freedom.
February 8, 2022 at 16:54 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
I've never personally been able to make the sort of intuitive time surfing described by Loomans work for more than a few days. There is one exception to that, which is the question I used at the end of "Get Everything Done":

"What am I resisting the most at this precise moment?"

Continuous use of this question is a very powerful way of working.
February 9, 2022 at 0:50 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Apropos of nothing, a Tom Swifty:

"I can't remember what to do next," said Tom, listlessly.
February 9, 2022 at 12:54 | Unregistered CommenterMike Brown
Mark:

<<"What am I resisting the most at this precise moment?"

Continuous use of this question is a very powerful way of working.>>

A couple of questions about this excellent question:

1. Have you every tried to manage an entire day with just this question?
2. Do you ask yourself the question after you finish a task, or when you're in a certain type of mood i.e. Bored (Boredom can signify resistance/fear of something)
3. What do you suggest when the question produces multiple answers? Example:

What am I resisting the most at this precise moment?

1. Planning a trip to Florida
2. Calling my dentist
3. Shovelling the walkway
4. Inquiring about adult education class

****** Update ********

I just discovered that THE QUESTION and Scatter Maps are discussed in the same chapter in GED. Scatter Maps is something I use every day (and night) - so anchoring THE QUESTION to my habit of using Scatter Maps should be easy peasy.
February 9, 2022 at 16:08 | Registered Commenteravrum
avrum:

<< 1. Have you every tried to manage an entire day with just this question? >>

Yes, I've used it for quite an extended period. Somewhere between a month and a year, and periodically since then.

<< 2. Do you ask yourself the question after you finish a task, or when you're in a certain type of mood i.e. Bored (Boredom can signify resistance/fear of something) >>

I use it when I've finished an activity in order to identify the next activity.

<< 3. What do you suggest when the question produces multiple answers? >>

It doesn't. "The most" is exclusive and only applies to one activity.
February 9, 2022 at 21:23 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Helpful Mark. Thanks.
February 10, 2022 at 1:54 | Registered Commenteravrum