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Discussion Forum > Experimenting again

I should know by now that every time I say that I'm not going to do any more experiments I get hit by a big idea that I just can't resist.

It's happened again.

I'm testing out a great new system which deals brilliantly with new stuff, old stuff, unfinished stuff, repeating stuff and urgent stuff. It's not very good at dealing with anything that doesn't fall in any of those categories - but that probably doesn't matter too much.

Like most of my ideas it builds on a lot of my old ideas, combines them in a new way and adds a few new things.

I'll keep you posted!
August 19, 2011 at 13:37 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Puzzle: what is it that escapes the categories new, old, unfinished, repeating, urgent?
I suppose Scheduled stuff, and middle aged stuff. Maybe stuff not yet defined or invented.

Good luck!
August 19, 2011 at 16:24 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Mark,

Does this new experiment have anything to do with your Magic Notebook blog post?
August 19, 2011 at 21:21 | Registered Commenterubi
I hope your new system is as digital friendly as SF3/AF1 (if not more). If I have to move to fully analog, I would really miss the nice digital features: (i) easy reentering by dragging tasks, (ii) complete chronological notes attached to each task, (iii) hiding of done tasks, (iv) easy filtering of tasks by search keywords or tagging, and (v) collapsible outlining views of pages/tasks.

Your new Magic Notebook gets me excited, especially if it is really included in your new experiment.

My current carry everywhere todo lists/devices are:
(1) One A4 page folded into A7 size (16 sub pages) - this is my disposable capture device, one subpage for list of immediate urgent stuff, other subpages for free form capture of stuff arising while doing things that can't/shouldn't be interrupted,
(2) One A7 size flip-up paper notebook - this is my archivable capture device, chronological log and notes of events/meetings/studies.
(3) One 7" or 4" mobile android - where my SF3/AF1 list mainly resides (same list accessible via web from other devices)

I'm stoked about your new experiment. ;-)
August 19, 2011 at 23:28 | Registered Commentersabre23t
Alan:

<< what is it that escapes the categories new, old, unfinished, repeating, urgent? >>

I was kind of thinking of nothing. But I guess pipe-dreams would be one such.
August 20, 2011 at 0:05 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
ubi:

<< Does this new experiment have anything to do with your Magic Notebook blog post? >>

Yes, I've been meaning to make that post for nearly a month now, and the new experiment got me doing it within a day.

But as for it giving any clues to the system, no.
August 20, 2011 at 0:07 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
sabre:

<< I hope your new system is as digital friendly as SF3/AF1 >>

Yes, I think it will lend itself to digital implementation very easily.
August 20, 2011 at 0:08 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
<<the new experiment got me doing it within a day.>>

Mark... an observation, it would seem the novelty of new systems create momentum for many of your projects. Perhaps that's the secret to keep things moving.
August 20, 2011 at 0:11 | Registered Commenteravrum
Currently, I am using a Moleskine notebook. I was using AF4 revised the last 2 months and dividing into New, Unfinished, Recurring. I used different Moleskine notebooks for each, but found that this was unnecessarily complicated. So I have this month been keeping everything in one notebook, and creating a monthly, weekly, daily calendar as I go along when I need it, I have daily, weekly, checklists, and projects and projects notes. The pages grow organically, chronologically. Recurring became checklists. I have some trouble determining whether an item is Unfinished or New. If a new task belongs to a project, which is it? Perhaps it doesn't matter. Sometimes the task goes on a project page. I keep an index in front. I find keeping everything in one book simplifies. I can carry it around. I tried a ring binder with dividers, but gave up after a day - too clumsy.
I have been using computer software for 11 years to manage my time, but this summer am experimenting with paper. Looking at a computer screen with the bright light and small print is getting hard on my eyes and fatiguing. Paper is less stressful. I do have to scan the pages daily, as there is no search or tagging.
I tried AF1 for two months, when it came out, and come back to it off and on. I can go on that the whole day and never run out of things to do. I don't find it good for urgent deadlines or time-consuming projects. I end up not putting enough time into these when the deadline approaches.
I also tried Superfocus for a few months.
I seem to do better when I have a list of things that have to be done today or this week, and a list of projects with deadlines, in addition to the rest.
August 20, 2011 at 21:00 | Registered Commentermarkhedm
Hello everyone, been a while I know!

Mark, I'm really happy to see you up and at it again.
Your taking previous concepts and applying them new mechanics is always a wonder to behold. Innovation is your middle name and at the very worst, without forward motion, how can we validate the past?
August 21, 2011 at 15:09 | Registered CommenterErik
Validate the past? What a strange concept!
August 21, 2011 at 16:59 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
The experiment is going very well. I've just changed some of the rules tonight to make it even better.

People who like DIT will love it. People who like AF will love it. People who like DWM will love it. And finally people who like SF will love it.

The only people who won't love it are the "tweakers" because it won't need any tweaks!
August 21, 2011 at 22:36 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Mark,

Looking forward to lovin' it. What will you call it?
August 21, 2011 at 23:08 | Registered Commenterubi
<< I've just changed some of the rules tonight to make it even better. ... it won't need any tweaks!>>
I fully believe it will be well received. I equally doubt people will resist tweaking any more than you have. Carry on though :-)
August 21, 2011 at 23:17 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
ubi

<< What will you call it? >>

Provisionally 1-2-6.

I hope I haven't now set off a train of speculation about why I would call it that!
August 21, 2011 at 23:30 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
<<Provisionally 1-2-6.>>

Day (1): People love the system

Day (2): The tweaking begins

Day (6): Mark begins work on new system
August 22, 2011 at 0:08 | Registered Commenteravrum
<<It's happened again. I'm testing out a great new system ...>>
Mark, that never loses its ring! I hope this system lives up to your high standards, but even if not, I hope you will consider sharing it as an experimental craft for intrepid test pilots.

<<... deals brilliantly with new stuff, old stuff, unfinished stuff, repeating stuff and urgent stuff>>
That about covers it. What else? Stupid stuff ... stuff I should have delegated ... stuff I forgot to write down ...

<<People who like DIT will love it. People who like AF will love it. People who like DWM will love it. And finally people who like SF will love it.>>
People who like "Dreams"?
Will we love if it if we feel like it, but not before? ;)

avrum wrote:
<<... the novelty of new systems create momentum ...>>
Mark, elaborating on my opening plea, this system is sure to provide many of us, worst case, a good month or two of fun productivity, even if you ultimately find it flawed. It might even lead someone to their own special "perfect" system. Pleeeease consider sharing whatever comes of it. :)

<<<< What will you call it? >>
Provisionally 1-2-6.>>
How mysterious and painfully intriguing.

Best of luck with the new system, Mark!
August 22, 2011 at 2:46 | Registered CommenterBernie
+JMJ+

Mark,

<<The only people who won't love it are the "tweakers" because it won't need any tweaks! >>

Ha! ^___^

<<Provisionally 1-2-6.>>

Nice set of numbers, Mark. I am actually trialling a form of DWM2 for almost two weeks now, and I could call it 7-14-28

7 - all unfinished are dismissed
14 - all remaining are dismissed
28 - all dismissed are deleted

I wonder if it has any similarities with yours.

Godspeed on your efforts Mark!
August 22, 2011 at 5:41 | Registered Commenternuntym
Bernie:

<< People who like "Dreams"? >>

I'm also working on how to integrate the two, but basically they are two separate systems.
August 22, 2011 at 8:40 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
nuntym:

<< I wonder if it has any similarities with yours.>>

No more than the original DWM does.
August 22, 2011 at 8:42 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
+JMJ+

Mark: <<No more than the original DWM does. >>

Now I'm intrigued.

Eagerly waiting!
August 22, 2011 at 9:16 | Registered Commenternuntym
> << What will you call it? >>
>
> Provisionally 1-2-6.

I typed 1-2-6 into Google and it came up with this answer...

1 - 2 - 6 = -7

So there you have it folks, all is clear now.
August 22, 2011 at 12:05 | Registered CommenterFrank
Is the new system super-simple?
August 22, 2011 at 15:30 | Registered Commentersmileypete
Frank:

Actually, as I start typing "1 2 6" in Google, it autocompletes saying that "42" in the next number in that sequence…

And 42, as we already know, is the meaning of life, the universe and everything! http://google.com/search?q=what+is+the+meaning+of+life+the+universe+and+everything

This can be something BIG!

:)
August 22, 2011 at 15:39 | Registered CommenterHugo Ferreira
Hugo:

<< as I start typing "1 2 6" in Google, it autocompletes saying that "42" in the next number in that sequence… >>

That's odd. I get 24.
August 22, 2011 at 15:51 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
smileypete:

<< Is the new system super-simple? >>

Simple rather than super simple.
August 22, 2011 at 15:52 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
avrum:

<< it would seem the novelty of new systems create momentum for many of your projects. Perhaps that's the secret to keep things moving. >>

On the contrary, the reason it took nearly a month to get the "Magic Notebook" posted was because I kept changing systems. It would have got done long ago if I'd stuck to one system - any system!
August 22, 2011 at 15:55 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
1,2,6,24: f(0)=1 , f(x+1) = x * x +x

1,2,6,42: f(0)=1, f(x+1) = f(x) * f(x)+f(x)
August 22, 2011 at 16:18 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Alan:

<< 1,2,6,24: f(0)=1 , f(x+1) = x * x +x

<< 1,2,6,42: f(0)=1, f(x+1) = f(x) * f(x)+f(x) >>

That makes it all much clearer.
August 22, 2011 at 17:20 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
If the new system ranks to-do's using algebraic formulas, you lost me already :) :) :)
August 22, 2011 at 17:55 | Registered CommenterLillian
It wouldn't be the first time. Quoting another TM system designer:
"I intend to create a full system, and that includes high level equations for personal productivity."
August 22, 2011 at 20:54 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Latest situation report:

I've been adjusting the mix over the last couple of days to get the best possible performance.

If you can imagine a mixture of DIT, AF2, SF, and DWM you are about there. I started with AF1 in the mixture but have phased that out in favour of AF2.

There's no dismissal process by the way. As in DWM, tasks go over the waterfall if they haven't been done in time.

Oh, and I forgot to mention AF4 (Revised)(http://www.markforster.net/blog/2011/1/29/review-of-the-systems-af4-revised.html ). There's quite a bit of that in the mix too.
August 22, 2011 at 23:55 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
<<As in DWM, tasks go over the waterfall if they haven't been done in time.>>

If I was able to code, I would create a task/project management app that would have this rule built-in. Potential customers would complain, asking for an option to not have tasks disappear automatically, but I wouldn't budge. I would remove human intervention from the process. That pressure - very real pressure - would be something I would find (in time) ultimately rewarding.
August 23, 2011 at 1:28 | Registered Commenteravrum
Avrum,

In the Excel version of DWM by Walter tasks do disappear automatically. At least from the main sheet. They are archived in another sheet, but you can either disregard them there or delete them permanently without even looking.
August 23, 2011 at 2:28 | Registered CommenterIlse
<<are archived in another sheet,>>

Not bad, but I'd get rid of them completely. A few experiences like this would be enough to increase mindfulness about my lists.
August 23, 2011 at 3:35 | Registered Commenteravrum
<< If you can imagine a mixture of DIT, AF2, SF, and DWM you are about there. I started with AF1 in the mixture but have phased that out in favour of AF2 ... Oh, and I forgot to mention AF4 >>

Wow, Mark, you have really outdone yourself this time! I wonder, did you sketch out this idea at the zoo, while watching the platypus? ;) I am curiouser than ever.
August 23, 2011 at 7:39 | Registered CommenterBernie
@markhedm this is interesting, please explain in more detail "pages grow organically"

as this is a non page move/insert notebook, how do you a list, such as a project?

say you have project A and B. you enter some of A. then some other things, then B, then need to enter some more
A, does it just go after B? in one long list or series of lists? i use 3 ring binders, so I can add more pages
to project A list. but I understood the use of less bulk of a thin non remove binder.

any more info would be of use, thank you, matthewS
August 23, 2011 at 7:49 | Registered CommentermatthewS
matthewS

Thanks for responding to my post.
I use a Moleskine ruled notebook, 5 by 8. There are 31 lines to each page. When I need a calendar for a day, I draw one, using each line as a half hour. When I need a calendar for a week, I draw one on two pages. When I need a calendar for a month, or a checklist for the month, I draw one, one day for each line. Each one on the next available blank page.
When I start planning a project, I start a new page for one on the next blank page.
I write new tasks on a separate page. When I need to write down what I must do today, and write the llst on a new page.
This means that projects are not together, and new tasks are not together, and checklists are not together, and calendars on not together, on consecutive pages.
I number the pages. I have a table of contents on the first page. If I want, I put the page number and description on the first page so I can find it.
I date each page. The pages will then be in chronological order of when I started each one.

I thought of using a 3-ring binder, and using dividers to separate each section, but I quickly gave it up after a day of trying it. Flipping pages in a Moleskine is so much faster than a binder, a binder is more cumbersome to carry around. There is still flipping of pages even with a binder with dividers.
Checklists save paper. However, keeping recurring lists and rewriting and crossing off a la AF1 perhaps is more likely to get the task done.
I hope this helps. Maybe not the perfect system, but it does have the advantage of keeping everything in one book, easy to carry around. I generally work backwards, from last page to front.
August 23, 2011 at 16:52 | Registered Commentermarkhedm
markhedm,

Your free-form notebook of lists/calendars/notes/plans sounds intriguing. I like the idea of a bound notebook and just creating a new page for whatever you need at the moment, with all the organization in the chronology and table of contents. Not sure it would work for me – I tend to write notes on index cards, engineering pads, email and article printouts, etc. so I need to maintain an Active/Pending stack of paper, which I don't carry around all day like I do with my pocket AF notebook.

How many pages are in your notebook? How long have you been using this method? What happens when you run out of pages – do you carry around two notebooks for a while, or transfer what you need into the new one?

Sorry I have so many questions. Perhaps you should start a new post on this topic, as it's not really related to Mark F.'s experiments (I don't think)…
August 23, 2011 at 19:15 | Registered Commenterubi
The mix has changed again a bit today. AF2 is out and AF1 back in. The DIT and AF4 (revised) elements have been strengthened, and DWM reduced, Dismissal has been re-introduced and the waterfall is out. I've made some minor changes to the order in which things happen so as to speed up the processing of new tasks.

What I'm engaged in at the moment is bringing all my work into the system, so the load on it is gradually increasing. I'm really hopeful that I'm just about there but the next few days should tell.
August 24, 2011 at 0:15 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Coincidentally, I've arrived at a similar point. Starting with superfocus, I've slowly made little tweaks, passing through that AF on a planner, back to something like AF4R ( http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/1325521 ), except with Old/new running like AF1. All this by unplanned incremental changes to make work smoother.
August 24, 2011 at 3:25 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Mark - are you evaluating how well this new system handles more than one context? I still struggle with keeping up with a relatively small number of at-home tasks, a large number of day-job tasks, and some that could be done in either context.
August 24, 2011 at 17:06 | Registered CommenterZane
That's my situation Zane. My solution:
2 separate systems.
When something important comes up that could/should go to the other place, copy it.
August 24, 2011 at 17:53 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Zane,

Mark has recommended separate notebooks for separate places before. I like the "cave deposits" method (stalagmite/stalactite) where you list one context top-down, and the other bottom-up on each page. When the two sublists meet, draw a heavy horizontal line to separate. I hope the new experiment will allow this type of context separation.
August 24, 2011 at 19:06 | Registered Commenterubi
Zane:

I think one list would be difficult to keep up in the circumstances you describe whatever method of time management you are using.

My recommendation has always been that you should have a separate list for each location and, as Alan says, if you have something which can be done in either location then it should appear on both lists.
August 24, 2011 at 21:27 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
A, u, & M - Thanks to each of you! I was going to try flipping my book over and recording non-work items from back to front, but I've tried that before and failed. I like ubi's suggestion because the non-work items will always be in front of me and I'll get a good idea of their proportion. Thanks ubi.
August 24, 2011 at 23:22 | Registered CommenterZane
thank you markhedm, your answer cleared up my questions. i'd actually started with your system and gave up after a day when tasks ran into half a project list then tasks then day list then other half of project list

so, now I'm trying it again and so far like it. I'm sort of cheating, in that doing my existing 3 ring binder, just not letting myself re-order. I guess is giving myself safety net. however, i do realize that missing some/most? of benefit, which is the format of the binder.

this does show me there are other benefits. such as not thinking about re-order. reminds me of earlier discussion, which i'm sure many will remember, details eluding me for the moment, of incredulity (by some) of a simple system that had less choices which Mark was pointing out that for some, choices cause more stress. finding that is true for not letting myself re-order. is nice. not a problem. making day and week lists, projects, otherwise, as I need them.

as for what Ubi said "Perhaps you should start a new post on this topic, as it's not really related to Mark F.'s experiments (I don't think)…"

yes, should we? what is the process for that? copy over items, or just point back to them in link?
August 26, 2011 at 1:05 | Registered CommentermatthewS
Mark:

Pipe dreams are part of the recurring exercises from Dreams Come True. You said the new section handled recurring well.

I'm happy to see an emphasis on recurring tasks. How does it handle different frequencies and fuzzy cycles? I say I sweep weekly, but the house is still standing (and the family doesn't notice) if it goes a month.

How does it handle little-and-often that aren't priorities? I have some projects that I want to work on daily, and I need incentive to keep going. They can be dropped if necessary, but then I need incentive to pick them up again.

Other posters:

I don't like automatic dismissal. If you have to drop everything for a week, it would dismiss things it shouldn't. You'd have to go through the dismissed items to find the ones that belong in your normal flow.
August 28, 2011 at 15:36 | Registered CommenterCricket
Cricket:

<< Pipe dreams are part of the recurring exercises from Dreams Come True. >>

No, a pipe dream is something you never get round to taking any action on, and probably never really intend to either. Dreams and its exercises are about taking action. It ceases to be a pipe dream if it's being dealt with by the Dreams process.

<< You said the new section handled recurring well. >>

Yes, it does

<< I'm happy to see an emphasis on recurring tasks. How does it handle different frequencies and fuzzy cycles? >>

Brilliantly

<< I say I sweep weekly, but the house is still standing (and the family doesn't notice) if it goes a month.>>

It will get you sweeping weekly, or possibly get you to admit that you only need to sweep once a month.

<< How does it handle little-and-often that aren't priorities? >>

No problem.

<< I have some projects that I want to work on daily, and I need incentive to keep going. They can be dropped if necessary, but then I need incentive to pick them up again. >>

It's very good at giving that sort of incentive.

<< I don't like automatic dismissal. >>

There's no dismissal in this system, automatic or otherwise.

<< If you have to drop everything for a week, it would dismiss things it shouldn't. >>

Should you have to drop everything for a week, you can pick up right where you were.

<< You'd have to go through the dismissed items to find the ones that belong in your normal flow. >>

Yes, you would if there were any dismissal. But there isn't.
August 28, 2011 at 15:45 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
No dismissal at all? This is not something I expected to hear from you. I look forward to seeing how the new system handles all the good things that dismissal does.

I'll accept your definition of pipe dreams, but also point out that Dreams helps us look at pipe dreams (the castle by the sea) and decide if they should stay that way or enter the process of being refined and made real. I've moved a few pipe dreams to action over the years, and been very glad I did.

Definitely looking forward to seeing the new system.
August 28, 2011 at 16:56 | Registered CommenterCricket

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