Discussion Forum > How to actually use any system
Well, if you "kinda forget them" then you didn't learn them in the first place, didn't you?
In GTD one of the phases of workflow is called "REVIEW". So, in order to do GTD properly you should have established the habit of reviewing your lists, your calendar etc often enough. You have not learned the system if you didn't establsih that habit.
In GTD one of the phases of workflow is called "REVIEW". So, in order to do GTD properly you should have established the habit of reviewing your lists, your calendar etc often enough. You have not learned the system if you didn't establsih that habit.
September 29, 2014 at 11:07 |
Christopher
Christopher
Adding to what Christopher has said (and I agree with), there's a honeymoon period with every time management system where the newness and novelty of the system will keep you engaged with it.
It's only when that period is over that you see the true worth of the system to you.
At some point in every system, you are going to have to put in the relatively unpleasant mental effort of *engaging* with what you are doing, whether just planning what to do next or actually doing it.
GTD does this upfront, Mark's systems do it as you go along.
Either way, there's no way around *engaging* with the system consistently if you want it to work for you. If you can force yourself to engage over a long enough period, you might make the engagement into a habit and then the system may stick.
The interesting truth is that pretty much any of the established time management systems will work for you if you can make your engagement with them into a habit. It's not about managing time but managing yourself.
It's only when that period is over that you see the true worth of the system to you.
At some point in every system, you are going to have to put in the relatively unpleasant mental effort of *engaging* with what you are doing, whether just planning what to do next or actually doing it.
GTD does this upfront, Mark's systems do it as you go along.
Either way, there's no way around *engaging* with the system consistently if you want it to work for you. If you can force yourself to engage over a long enough period, you might make the engagement into a habit and then the system may stick.
The interesting truth is that pretty much any of the established time management systems will work for you if you can make your engagement with them into a habit. It's not about managing time but managing yourself.
September 29, 2014 at 12:35 |
Frank
Frank
Optimist -
First of all, welcome to the club. I've been mucking around with productivity shtick since 2002, here's a few things that have worked for me:
1. A real deadline. Please note, if you're thick like I am, self-imposed deadlines crumble under the weight of my inertia
2. A weekly check-in with a real person, in a real place working on real plans. Barbara Sher has some excellent suggestions on how to make the most of your time together: http://wishcraft.com/wishcraft_ch10.pdf (see page 224)
3. Invest in the best tools that you can afford. You tend to use the things that please your olfactory and other senses.
4. Productivity Systems? I've pillaged from all the great ones, and cobble together my own. However the one thing that continues to work well, is some sort of a weekly review. For me, that is non-negotiable.
5. Whenever possible, try to hitch a new workflow onto a change in your life i.e. Starting GTD right after you get back from vacation, or trying one of Mark's systems after you commit to a project. You can siphon the excitement off a new thing into self-discipline re: workflow rules.
Caveat Emptor
Personally, I've yet to find much of a connection between any system and my ability to accomplish important goals. Truthfully, most of the things I'm most proud of (My first recorded album, Traveling across Canada, and even getting published) happened without any lists or systems that I can recall.
First of all, welcome to the club. I've been mucking around with productivity shtick since 2002, here's a few things that have worked for me:
1. A real deadline. Please note, if you're thick like I am, self-imposed deadlines crumble under the weight of my inertia
2. A weekly check-in with a real person, in a real place working on real plans. Barbara Sher has some excellent suggestions on how to make the most of your time together: http://wishcraft.com/wishcraft_ch10.pdf (see page 224)
3. Invest in the best tools that you can afford. You tend to use the things that please your olfactory and other senses.
4. Productivity Systems? I've pillaged from all the great ones, and cobble together my own. However the one thing that continues to work well, is some sort of a weekly review. For me, that is non-negotiable.
5. Whenever possible, try to hitch a new workflow onto a change in your life i.e. Starting GTD right after you get back from vacation, or trying one of Mark's systems after you commit to a project. You can siphon the excitement off a new thing into self-discipline re: workflow rules.
Caveat Emptor
Personally, I've yet to find much of a connection between any system and my ability to accomplish important goals. Truthfully, most of the things I'm most proud of (My first recorded album, Traveling across Canada, and even getting published) happened without any lists or systems that I can recall.
September 29, 2014 at 14:52 |
avrum
avrum
My two cents:
1) Capture everything in one place
2) Clearly define what each thing is in relation to what you want to do with it
3) Prioritize ruthlessly, identify a few things that must get done today, and a set of things you would like to accomplish today. Do not use your capture list as your to-do list.
4) Randomize the "must" list
5) Force yourself to work 5 minutes on the selected item. If not complete and you hit that item again, work 10 minutes, then 15, etc.
6) Randomize the "would like" list, following 5) above.
1) Capture everything in one place
2) Clearly define what each thing is in relation to what you want to do with it
3) Prioritize ruthlessly, identify a few things that must get done today, and a set of things you would like to accomplish today. Do not use your capture list as your to-do list.
4) Randomize the "must" list
5) Force yourself to work 5 minutes on the selected item. If not complete and you hit that item again, work 10 minutes, then 15, etc.
6) Randomize the "would like" list, following 5) above.
September 29, 2014 at 20:30 |
vegheadjones
vegheadjones
"If you want to change your life, change your day."
Mark's systems will teach you good habits, but only if you can get yourself to follow them.
Failing that, you might try The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg:
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_1_10?k=the+power+of+habit&sprefix=The+power+
Mark's systems will teach you good habits, but only if you can get yourself to follow them.
Failing that, you might try The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg:
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_1_10?k=the+power+of+habit&sprefix=The+power+
September 30, 2014 at 6:17 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Optimist:
<< Then after buying the bicycle and reading the manual I kinda forget about them and pretty soon panic ensues because I still can't ride a bicycle and I'm still having to walk, and it's time to try to ride the bicycle again.>>
The power of a system is just that - it's a system. A system is no good unless it's followed. To follow a system you need to train yourself, which like any other training is done by repetition.
As someone else has remarked any system is better than no system.
This is one of the reasons why constantly jumping from system to system is on a hiding to nothing. All you succeed in doing is train yourself to jump from system to system.
<< Then after buying the bicycle and reading the manual I kinda forget about them and pretty soon panic ensues because I still can't ride a bicycle and I'm still having to walk, and it's time to try to ride the bicycle again.>>
The power of a system is just that - it's a system. A system is no good unless it's followed. To follow a system you need to train yourself, which like any other training is done by repetition.
As someone else has remarked any system is better than no system.
This is one of the reasons why constantly jumping from system to system is on a hiding to nothing. All you succeed in doing is train yourself to jump from system to system.
September 30, 2014 at 8:33 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
avrum:
<< Truthfully, most of the things I'm most proud of (My first recorded album, Traveling across Canada, and even getting published) happened without any lists or systems that I can recall. >>
It's interesting that you should say that because that's been my experience as well. In my new book I have been seeking to reverse engineer what caused the successes I am most proud of.
Although they weren't the result of using any lists or systems as such, there was definitely something going on which I was quite capable of defining after it happened.
For instance, after I'd built my own company up, I could describe clearly what the principles were on which I'd built it even though I wasn't entirely conscious of what those principles were at the time. In the same way after I'd written my first book, I could clearly describe the principles I'd followed in order to get published and write the book though I hadn't enunciated those principles to myself before I started.
My new book will be about how to get at those principles before you start an endeavour - whatever it might be, from keeping your office tidy to recording an album or travelling round the world. I'm aiming to show the ordinary person that they can be as productive in their own spheres as Isaac Newton, Vincent Van Gogh and Henry Ford were in theirs simply by following the same methods that they used - consciously or unconsciously.
Although they sound like three completely different people if you examine their lives you will find that they worked with very similar methods.
<< Truthfully, most of the things I'm most proud of (My first recorded album, Traveling across Canada, and even getting published) happened without any lists or systems that I can recall. >>
It's interesting that you should say that because that's been my experience as well. In my new book I have been seeking to reverse engineer what caused the successes I am most proud of.
Although they weren't the result of using any lists or systems as such, there was definitely something going on which I was quite capable of defining after it happened.
For instance, after I'd built my own company up, I could describe clearly what the principles were on which I'd built it even though I wasn't entirely conscious of what those principles were at the time. In the same way after I'd written my first book, I could clearly describe the principles I'd followed in order to get published and write the book though I hadn't enunciated those principles to myself before I started.
My new book will be about how to get at those principles before you start an endeavour - whatever it might be, from keeping your office tidy to recording an album or travelling round the world. I'm aiming to show the ordinary person that they can be as productive in their own spheres as Isaac Newton, Vincent Van Gogh and Henry Ford were in theirs simply by following the same methods that they used - consciously or unconsciously.
Although they sound like three completely different people if you examine their lives you will find that they worked with very similar methods.
September 30, 2014 at 8:54 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Thank you all for your responses:
@ Christopher: Yes... maybe 'kinda forget them' actually means 'kinda ignore them, on purpose and deliberately, because right now I don't want to do them'. As for reviewing... this happens, but not as part of a system. It happens when my back is to the wall (again) and it's sink-or-swim time.
@ Frank: when you said ' It's not about managing time but managing yourself'... that hit home. I find systems and systems thinking fascinating. Exploring new systems doesn't feel like work.
@ avrum: thank you for the welcome. I felt an instant resistance - fear even - at the prospect of a weekly check-in. Probably means it's a very good idea.
@ vegheadjones: for me, I think the key thing in your list is in item 5: '...force yourself...' None of the rest will happen without that.
@ Seraphim: thanks for the book rec. I've had a lifelong aversion to routine, habit and calendars... anything that felt like it reduced my options for making my choices right in the moment, right now. I'm beginning to think I've had it pretty much the wrong way round. The other day I heard myself tell my daughter that - in the context of her English homework - freedom and creativity lay in her use of the rules of grammar and spelling, not in the ignoring of them. Funny, that.
@ Mark Forster: bicycle analogy - ouch! I love cycling, and what you wrote made me blush. Self-deception looks pretty silly from the outside. So, you mean I need to stop reading about chainsets, and writing tables of gear ratios, and researching tyres and frames and pedals, and actually go and ride the thing?
Also your new book sounds like it gets to the heart of the thing for the likes of me. Can't wait. In the meantime, this morning, I had no difficulty making myself play Lego with my seven-year-old son. Just like going for a bike ride with my both my sons on Saturday afternoon was easy. But facing that list of tasks, waiting for me at work? Hhhhmmm...
@ Christopher: Yes... maybe 'kinda forget them' actually means 'kinda ignore them, on purpose and deliberately, because right now I don't want to do them'. As for reviewing... this happens, but not as part of a system. It happens when my back is to the wall (again) and it's sink-or-swim time.
@ Frank: when you said ' It's not about managing time but managing yourself'... that hit home. I find systems and systems thinking fascinating. Exploring new systems doesn't feel like work.
@ avrum: thank you for the welcome. I felt an instant resistance - fear even - at the prospect of a weekly check-in. Probably means it's a very good idea.
@ vegheadjones: for me, I think the key thing in your list is in item 5: '...force yourself...' None of the rest will happen without that.
@ Seraphim: thanks for the book rec. I've had a lifelong aversion to routine, habit and calendars... anything that felt like it reduced my options for making my choices right in the moment, right now. I'm beginning to think I've had it pretty much the wrong way round. The other day I heard myself tell my daughter that - in the context of her English homework - freedom and creativity lay in her use of the rules of grammar and spelling, not in the ignoring of them. Funny, that.
@ Mark Forster: bicycle analogy - ouch! I love cycling, and what you wrote made me blush. Self-deception looks pretty silly from the outside. So, you mean I need to stop reading about chainsets, and writing tables of gear ratios, and researching tyres and frames and pedals, and actually go and ride the thing?
Also your new book sounds like it gets to the heart of the thing for the likes of me. Can't wait. In the meantime, this morning, I had no difficulty making myself play Lego with my seven-year-old son. Just like going for a bike ride with my both my sons on Saturday afternoon was easy. But facing that list of tasks, waiting for me at work? Hhhhmmm...
September 30, 2014 at 9:53 |
Optimist
Optimist
Optimist:
<< I've had a lifelong aversion to routine, habit and calendars... anything that felt like it reduced my options for making my choices right in the moment, right now. I'm beginning to think I've had it pretty much the wrong way round. >>
One of the big themes of my new book is that it's only when we've got the low-level things in our lives under control to the extent that we hardly have to think about them that we give ourselves freedom to concentrate on what really matters to us.
In other words having urgency driving everything and panic ensuing is not really freedom at all.
Oh, and by the way, one of the first pieces of advice given in my book is "throw away your to do list!"
<< I've had a lifelong aversion to routine, habit and calendars... anything that felt like it reduced my options for making my choices right in the moment, right now. I'm beginning to think I've had it pretty much the wrong way round. >>
One of the big themes of my new book is that it's only when we've got the low-level things in our lives under control to the extent that we hardly have to think about them that we give ourselves freedom to concentrate on what really matters to us.
In other words having urgency driving everything and panic ensuing is not really freedom at all.
Oh, and by the way, one of the first pieces of advice given in my book is "throw away your to do list!"
September 30, 2014 at 10:44 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Hi all
I need a list because it's mostly comprised of responsibilities that I CHOOSE to be conscientious about because I want to uphold certain character traits and my reputation. They are on my list so that I don't forget them and I need the list so that, subconsciously, I won't AVOID doing them. In short, most of my to do list is stuff that I want to be done yet I don't particularly enjoy the actual experience of doing them. To stay conscientious, I NEED TO FORCE MYSELF to screw up the determination to ignore all of the myriads of most pleasant options temporarily and FORCE A START! I don't care about how I make myself do it. I'll use any trick that works for that particular moment. The beauty of little and often is that even if I don't complete the project early, the last minute crunch is much easier because I already got engaged, worked out the major kinks, rode the learning curve wave, and fleshed out the main body of the work. The final crunch is mostly polishing up loose ends. If it's rote, boring responsibilities, I use fake deadlines. For decades, I've used this method. Finances must be current "enough" by every Friday. If it's more than a couple hours of work, then I'll use little and often so that Friday is easier to face. Sometimes, I'll intentionally get it done in the beginning of the week for the simple relief of having it over with early. It's no longer hanging over my head vaguely whispering in my ear nagging reminders about it! LOL!
My passions fuel themselves. Unless they have a true, hard deadline, they are represented on my list to either LIMIT how long I can work on it whilst I complete the boring yet important responsibilities for the day.
I'm in totally agreement with Vegheadjones about ruthless prioritizing and also adding things that I want to consider along with my chosen MITS. This provides me with my much needed OVERVIEW of what I want to focus on for the day vs my usual, kaleidoscopic thought processes. (It's great for creativity and problem-solving yet horrible for disciplining myself to meet my chosen "demands" for the day.
Adding things that I also want to seriously consider also helps my brain from going on a tangent. Example: My MITS plus a couple of projects that I hope to complete. I NEED to keep referring to the day's overview to remind myself what I've decided would make today a good day. I don't want to be immersed in weeding the garden only because that happened to click versus deliberately choosing projects that actually mean more to me overall.
Confession: I have always had to govern my brain like this because of my lifelong aversion to boredom…..especially boring work that requires close attention. AAACK!
The false deadlines for the boring, yet important responsibilities keep my mind mostly settled, my chosen lifestyle upheld so that I'm ultimately free in my discretionary time. When I'm current overall or even slightly ahead then I can genuinely do what I please without being hassled by the nag monster in my head. (It's actually just conscientiousness.) Lots of the best memories were created by surprise events. The few times that I had to decline the spontaneous opportunities life has presented to me has taught me that the relative pain of forcing myself to meet my responsibilities is infinitesimal compared to having shot myself in the foot by goofing off simply because I didn't respect future possibilities. My personal battle has always been marrying NOW with the possible future. The suffering of forcing myself to start what I don't want to do NOW (or ever) is ultimately worth the overall freedom that meeting my CHOSEN responsibilities and character traits brings to me. I LOVE unfettered freedom and I love giving myself the opportunities to welcome life's wonderful surprises!
When I have trouble finding the determination to start versus "conveniently" ignoring my list, I actively attach the WHY I'm bothering with it at all when I clearly don't enjoy the experience of doing it. LOL! It always boils down to either meeting my responsibilities, maintaining my chosen lifestyle or getting over the fear of the unknown of creativity or problem solving. I keep reminding myself that temporary failure is simply a bit of hard-won experiential knowledge that helps me to try something (hopefully) more promising. Cursing helps also! LOL!
Even when life throws you enough curve balls to negatively impact your life, there's peace in knowing that you can trust yourself overall even when you can't trust life itself. LOL! When I can trust myself, there's comfort in knowing that I'm genuinely doing the best that I can overall. (I'm not a tyrant to myself.) It also brings a kind of peace knowing that even if the cancer ultimately wins, I've done the best that I could to uphold my character, my lifestyle and made time to enjoy the people and passions in my life. The true irony is that governing myself brings me the freedom to love those things in life that make me feel grateful….even with the cancer I can still find reasons to "rejoice and be exceeding glad" even though I'm scare **itless! LOL!
Thank you all for giving me the tools to carry on. If things don't end well, at least my relatively won't be stuck with sorting out a chaotic mess. LOL!
p.s. This is NOT proof-read. Ignore my usual errors.
I need a list because it's mostly comprised of responsibilities that I CHOOSE to be conscientious about because I want to uphold certain character traits and my reputation. They are on my list so that I don't forget them and I need the list so that, subconsciously, I won't AVOID doing them. In short, most of my to do list is stuff that I want to be done yet I don't particularly enjoy the actual experience of doing them. To stay conscientious, I NEED TO FORCE MYSELF to screw up the determination to ignore all of the myriads of most pleasant options temporarily and FORCE A START! I don't care about how I make myself do it. I'll use any trick that works for that particular moment. The beauty of little and often is that even if I don't complete the project early, the last minute crunch is much easier because I already got engaged, worked out the major kinks, rode the learning curve wave, and fleshed out the main body of the work. The final crunch is mostly polishing up loose ends. If it's rote, boring responsibilities, I use fake deadlines. For decades, I've used this method. Finances must be current "enough" by every Friday. If it's more than a couple hours of work, then I'll use little and often so that Friday is easier to face. Sometimes, I'll intentionally get it done in the beginning of the week for the simple relief of having it over with early. It's no longer hanging over my head vaguely whispering in my ear nagging reminders about it! LOL!
My passions fuel themselves. Unless they have a true, hard deadline, they are represented on my list to either LIMIT how long I can work on it whilst I complete the boring yet important responsibilities for the day.
I'm in totally agreement with Vegheadjones about ruthless prioritizing and also adding things that I want to consider along with my chosen MITS. This provides me with my much needed OVERVIEW of what I want to focus on for the day vs my usual, kaleidoscopic thought processes. (It's great for creativity and problem-solving yet horrible for disciplining myself to meet my chosen "demands" for the day.
Adding things that I also want to seriously consider also helps my brain from going on a tangent. Example: My MITS plus a couple of projects that I hope to complete. I NEED to keep referring to the day's overview to remind myself what I've decided would make today a good day. I don't want to be immersed in weeding the garden only because that happened to click versus deliberately choosing projects that actually mean more to me overall.
Confession: I have always had to govern my brain like this because of my lifelong aversion to boredom…..especially boring work that requires close attention. AAACK!
The false deadlines for the boring, yet important responsibilities keep my mind mostly settled, my chosen lifestyle upheld so that I'm ultimately free in my discretionary time. When I'm current overall or even slightly ahead then I can genuinely do what I please without being hassled by the nag monster in my head. (It's actually just conscientiousness.) Lots of the best memories were created by surprise events. The few times that I had to decline the spontaneous opportunities life has presented to me has taught me that the relative pain of forcing myself to meet my responsibilities is infinitesimal compared to having shot myself in the foot by goofing off simply because I didn't respect future possibilities. My personal battle has always been marrying NOW with the possible future. The suffering of forcing myself to start what I don't want to do NOW (or ever) is ultimately worth the overall freedom that meeting my CHOSEN responsibilities and character traits brings to me. I LOVE unfettered freedom and I love giving myself the opportunities to welcome life's wonderful surprises!
When I have trouble finding the determination to start versus "conveniently" ignoring my list, I actively attach the WHY I'm bothering with it at all when I clearly don't enjoy the experience of doing it. LOL! It always boils down to either meeting my responsibilities, maintaining my chosen lifestyle or getting over the fear of the unknown of creativity or problem solving. I keep reminding myself that temporary failure is simply a bit of hard-won experiential knowledge that helps me to try something (hopefully) more promising. Cursing helps also! LOL!
Even when life throws you enough curve balls to negatively impact your life, there's peace in knowing that you can trust yourself overall even when you can't trust life itself. LOL! When I can trust myself, there's comfort in knowing that I'm genuinely doing the best that I can overall. (I'm not a tyrant to myself.) It also brings a kind of peace knowing that even if the cancer ultimately wins, I've done the best that I could to uphold my character, my lifestyle and made time to enjoy the people and passions in my life. The true irony is that governing myself brings me the freedom to love those things in life that make me feel grateful….even with the cancer I can still find reasons to "rejoice and be exceeding glad" even though I'm scare **itless! LOL!
Thank you all for giving me the tools to carry on. If things don't end well, at least my relatively won't be stuck with sorting out a chaotic mess. LOL!
p.s. This is NOT proof-read. Ignore my usual errors.
September 30, 2014 at 13:10 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
p.s.
When I find myself getting ridiculously childish and stupid, I remember this quote.
"He who cannot obey himself will be commanded."
I don't want to be led by the nose via waiting for a true deadline to put some fire under my butt. I'd rather lead myself when I can. That requires LOTS of re-convincing myself of the WHY I bother at all to be early or on time on something that's so boring that my restlessness (desire to run like I'm avoiding getting myself caught on fire) is actually quite painful. LOL! I'm all to familiar with the disappointing quasi-pleasure that are diluted by my guilty, nagging brain. I prefer to dive into the waves rather than stick my toe into the ocean. Sometimes I'm weak. I need to just stick my toe in first. Eventually, I realize that although diving in creates a greater initial shock, you're enjoying yourself much sooner.
Thanks Mark for teaching us little and often and the principles underlying DIT and the myriads of other golden nuggets of wisdom that you generously share with us.
Thank you Vegheadjones for articulating things so well. Even when you post about things that I also believe and do, I love referring to some of your threads so that I can remind myself when my brain is a useless, quivering mass of laziness or pathetic cowardice. Your words help me to refresh my better thinking and to help me to realign my hopes and gratitude in the face of my fears. I can't thank you enough for that!
When I find myself getting ridiculously childish and stupid, I remember this quote.
"He who cannot obey himself will be commanded."
I don't want to be led by the nose via waiting for a true deadline to put some fire under my butt. I'd rather lead myself when I can. That requires LOTS of re-convincing myself of the WHY I bother at all to be early or on time on something that's so boring that my restlessness (desire to run like I'm avoiding getting myself caught on fire) is actually quite painful. LOL! I'm all to familiar with the disappointing quasi-pleasure that are diluted by my guilty, nagging brain. I prefer to dive into the waves rather than stick my toe into the ocean. Sometimes I'm weak. I need to just stick my toe in first. Eventually, I realize that although diving in creates a greater initial shock, you're enjoying yourself much sooner.
Thanks Mark for teaching us little and often and the principles underlying DIT and the myriads of other golden nuggets of wisdom that you generously share with us.
Thank you Vegheadjones for articulating things so well. Even when you post about things that I also believe and do, I love referring to some of your threads so that I can remind myself when my brain is a useless, quivering mass of laziness or pathetic cowardice. Your words help me to refresh my better thinking and to help me to realign my hopes and gratitude in the face of my fears. I can't thank you enough for that!
September 30, 2014 at 13:28 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
"I have been seeking to reverse engineer"
Actually, that's a very interesting idea. Perhaps the good people on this forum can do something similar: reverse engineer the things that led to an accomplishment. I'll create a new thread to get the ball rolling. See you there.
Actually, that's a very interesting idea. Perhaps the good people on this forum can do something similar: reverse engineer the things that led to an accomplishment. I'll create a new thread to get the ball rolling. See you there.
September 30, 2014 at 14:32 |
avrum
avrum
learning:
<< I need a list because it's mostly comprised of responsibilities that I CHOOSE to be conscientious about because I want to uphold certain character traits and my reputation. >>
I wouldn't tell you to throw away your to do list without proposing something better to put in its place, would I now?
<< I need a list because it's mostly comprised of responsibilities that I CHOOSE to be conscientious about because I want to uphold certain character traits and my reputation. >>
I wouldn't tell you to throw away your to do list without proposing something better to put in its place, would I now?
September 30, 2014 at 14:53 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark: I am so excited for your book. One question I am so curious about is what does not get tossed when you throw away your to-do list. Do you still have a list of things you are waiting on? A list of projects? A list of promises? A list of places you want to eat at when you are in Hawaii?
September 30, 2014 at 14:58 |
vegheadjones
vegheadjones
Hi Mark
"I wouldn't tell you to throw away your to do list without proposing something better to put in its place, would I now?"
LOL! Because of my brain damage, I need to rely heavily on external cueing. Primarily, I rely on lists to cue up my brain. Otherwise, I'd be totally adrift scanning my environment in desperate need for any sort of cue. Of course, it would likely involve immediate pleasure or an optional challenge! LOL! I'm the worst candidate to test any rational system that requires a decent memory and a decent internal cueing system. Nobody failed worse than I did when trying to implement AF1. I don't have the right brain for continuous, on the fly decision making. LOL!
"I wouldn't tell you to throw away your to do list without proposing something better to put in its place, would I now?"
LOL! Because of my brain damage, I need to rely heavily on external cueing. Primarily, I rely on lists to cue up my brain. Otherwise, I'd be totally adrift scanning my environment in desperate need for any sort of cue. Of course, it would likely involve immediate pleasure or an optional challenge! LOL! I'm the worst candidate to test any rational system that requires a decent memory and a decent internal cueing system. Nobody failed worse than I did when trying to implement AF1. I don't have the right brain for continuous, on the fly decision making. LOL!
September 30, 2014 at 20:14 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
"My biggest time management problem is actually making myself do the actual work that any time management system tries to manage."
That's everyone's problem. Our brains get off much more on short term hits versus the longer term payoffs from getting that work done. This often leads to people thinking that what they need is an algorithmic rules based system which selects their work for them, and then they drift from one to another, looking for those perfect rules, over and over again, kidding themselves that this is them now being productive. After a few years of this they may one day realise the adage about insanity being defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I eventually did.
I found the answer to be in an inductive think through of the opening statement of the problem. If the work matters then it needs to be done. If it needs to be done then I better get going or it won't get done, that is the simple immutable fact of it. If it doesn't get done then something that matters didn't get done and, by definition, I now have a problem. I don't want problems. So the conclusion is that I need to get the work done and it's not going to do itself, leaving it squarely on my shoulders to get cracking.
Hence if stuff matters I get it loosely worked out for the near future and then grit my teeth and get it done. The quick fix part of my brain doesn't get its hit but the rest of my brain tells it to shut up and deal with it, and the work gets done.
Mark mentioned a system once where you have three things to do such that one is always nicer to do than the others. If you like think of it as a variant of that, expect I've reduced it to one thing and a harsh realisation that doing it is nicer than not doing it.
That's everyone's problem. Our brains get off much more on short term hits versus the longer term payoffs from getting that work done. This often leads to people thinking that what they need is an algorithmic rules based system which selects their work for them, and then they drift from one to another, looking for those perfect rules, over and over again, kidding themselves that this is them now being productive. After a few years of this they may one day realise the adage about insanity being defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I eventually did.
I found the answer to be in an inductive think through of the opening statement of the problem. If the work matters then it needs to be done. If it needs to be done then I better get going or it won't get done, that is the simple immutable fact of it. If it doesn't get done then something that matters didn't get done and, by definition, I now have a problem. I don't want problems. So the conclusion is that I need to get the work done and it's not going to do itself, leaving it squarely on my shoulders to get cracking.
Hence if stuff matters I get it loosely worked out for the near future and then grit my teeth and get it done. The quick fix part of my brain doesn't get its hit but the rest of my brain tells it to shut up and deal with it, and the work gets done.
Mark mentioned a system once where you have three things to do such that one is always nicer to do than the others. If you like think of it as a variant of that, expect I've reduced it to one thing and a harsh realisation that doing it is nicer than not doing it.
October 1, 2014 at 1:01 |
Chris
Chris
Mark - very interesting observations on how the most creative and important work didn't show up on your lists.
In this book, the authors from iDoneThis talk about the research that shows that 85% of what people actually get done never appears on any of their lists. http://idonethis.com/static/docs/The-Busy-Persons-Guide-to-the-Done-List.pdf
This led me to stop messing around with lists and focus on habits instead, which has been very fruitful.
In this book, the authors from iDoneThis talk about the research that shows that 85% of what people actually get done never appears on any of their lists. http://idonethis.com/static/docs/The-Busy-Persons-Guide-to-the-Done-List.pdf
This led me to stop messing around with lists and focus on habits instead, which has been very fruitful.
October 1, 2014 at 5:59 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Learning:
Wow. Like, just wow. I stand in awe of how you handle life. From where I am now, I simply cannot comprehend the levels of conscientiousness and self-control and sheer dogged grit you’re talking about. And you sound so positive! I’m humbled.
I had not heard the saying "He who cannot obey himself will be commanded" before. It’s a good one.
Wow. Like, just wow. I stand in awe of how you handle life. From where I am now, I simply cannot comprehend the levels of conscientiousness and self-control and sheer dogged grit you’re talking about. And you sound so positive! I’m humbled.
I had not heard the saying "He who cannot obey himself will be commanded" before. It’s a good one.
October 1, 2014 at 10:15 |
Optimist
Optimist
Chris:
These two quotes are taken from your post:
Quote 1: “This often leads to people thinking that what they need is an algorithmic rules based system which <<selects their work for them>>, and then they drift from one to another, looking for those perfect rules, over and over again, <<kidding themselves>> that this is them now being productive.”
I’ve angle-bracketed the bits that jumped out at me (apologies, I can't see how to make things 'bold'). This is is all beginning to look like a question of personal maturity and character, rather than one of finding the one true system.
Quote 2: “I… then grit my teeth and get it done.”
Maturity and character. Again.
Looking back thru the thread, this is a bit of a recurring theme.
All the comments in this thread have given me a lot to think about. Thank you. Now I’m going to go do some work.
These two quotes are taken from your post:
Quote 1: “This often leads to people thinking that what they need is an algorithmic rules based system which <<selects their work for them>>, and then they drift from one to another, looking for those perfect rules, over and over again, <<kidding themselves>> that this is them now being productive.”
I’ve angle-bracketed the bits that jumped out at me (apologies, I can't see how to make things 'bold'). This is is all beginning to look like a question of personal maturity and character, rather than one of finding the one true system.
Quote 2: “I… then grit my teeth and get it done.”
Maturity and character. Again.
Looking back thru the thread, this is a bit of a recurring theme.
All the comments in this thread have given me a lot to think about. Thank you. Now I’m going to go do some work.
October 1, 2014 at 11:22 |
Optimist
Optimist
Hi Optimist
Thank you for your kind thoughts. I don't want you to think that I simply look at a list and just do it. Sometimes I'll find myself grousing about doing something and then my mind goes into overdrive scanning for plausible excuses to put it off. Then I catch myself and say "Damn it, you know damn well that you're going to do it so it's not even a matter of if, but of when....and you already decided that. (Strange that I talk to myself like I'm another person....lol)
So how am I going to get myself to start?" I walk to my standup desk, look over the list and say, "**ck it. Roll the dice." LOL!
Worse.......A thought interrupts my fuzzy, good mood while watching a miniature donkey outpacing a thoroughbred horse on an obstacle course....."What the hell?" I notice my pajama sleeve...."What time is it?" It's 10:02am. ALARM! I'm in my pj's still? I dash to the dog chart. Thank God I let her out at......6:48am? HUH? Next I go to the bathroom and notice that my toothbrush is wet. Then I go to my list to see what work I've gotten done because my memory is a blank. Nothing has been checked off. I go back to the computer and see 7 or 8 tabs about nonsense stuff. THREE HOURS IN A NET TRANCE! Damn....damn...damn... LOL!
I try my best to do right by myself and others but trying to keep track of my attention (let alone my determination) is sometimes like trying to catch a greased pig. LOL! It's always been coping not cure. My brain serves me very well for some things and is a huge PITA for others. LOL! I just keep trying to either stay on the horse or get myself back on it as soon as a realize that I'm totally on a tangent. LOL! "Cowboy up!"
Thank you for your kind thoughts. I don't want you to think that I simply look at a list and just do it. Sometimes I'll find myself grousing about doing something and then my mind goes into overdrive scanning for plausible excuses to put it off. Then I catch myself and say "Damn it, you know damn well that you're going to do it so it's not even a matter of if, but of when....and you already decided that. (Strange that I talk to myself like I'm another person....lol)
So how am I going to get myself to start?" I walk to my standup desk, look over the list and say, "**ck it. Roll the dice." LOL!
Worse.......A thought interrupts my fuzzy, good mood while watching a miniature donkey outpacing a thoroughbred horse on an obstacle course....."What the hell?" I notice my pajama sleeve...."What time is it?" It's 10:02am. ALARM! I'm in my pj's still? I dash to the dog chart. Thank God I let her out at......6:48am? HUH? Next I go to the bathroom and notice that my toothbrush is wet. Then I go to my list to see what work I've gotten done because my memory is a blank. Nothing has been checked off. I go back to the computer and see 7 or 8 tabs about nonsense stuff. THREE HOURS IN A NET TRANCE! Damn....damn...damn... LOL!
I try my best to do right by myself and others but trying to keep track of my attention (let alone my determination) is sometimes like trying to catch a greased pig. LOL! It's always been coping not cure. My brain serves me very well for some things and is a huge PITA for others. LOL! I just keep trying to either stay on the horse or get myself back on it as soon as a realize that I'm totally on a tangent. LOL! "Cowboy up!"
October 1, 2014 at 18:48 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
re: rolling the rice is randomizing my list when I'm too stubborn and weak to zero in on a chore. I have a grid with three colors. Blue is what I most hate and very important. Pink is another MIT that is less onerous and white is my choice. I have 4 blues, 3 pinks and 3 whites. Sometimes I need to play at this for a few rolls until my attitude has finally gelled so that I can just work the list the regular way. Other times I need to roll the dice for the entire first time block (1 hour minimum)! The whites aren't a waste. I still choose worthy work but it's MY CHOICE. It doesn't need to be a "holy" MIT. Some days I NEED the pinks and whites because my recalcitrant attitude is at epic levels. I can face the prospect of rolling a blue knowing that the odds aren't great that I'll roll it twice in a roll. Silly? Yeah, but it beats giving up altogether. *blush* Since it's a WILL DO list, it will get done along with other buffer tasks and breaks every hour (and sometimes I include some 2-3 minute attitude adjustment breaks in between) Whatever it takes....
October 1, 2014 at 19:07 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
I'm more than a bit wary of statistics like "85% of what people get done never appear on any of their lists". Very often when I investigate these statistics to see how they were arrived at I discover that they have no basis in fact whatsoever.
But even if we assume that this particular figure was based on a reputable study, who were the people studied? Are they are random selection of the population, or are they a self-selected group like the posters on this forum?
What sort of lists have they been using? If someone doesn't use any lists at all, then 100% of what they do won't appear on any lists. But that could hardly be seen as a criticism of lists.
At the opposite extreme if someone is using a "done list" then 100% of what they do will appear on their lists.
All of which is intended not as a defence of lists, but to show that without further definition the statement is basically meaningless.
But even if we assume that this particular figure was based on a reputable study, who were the people studied? Are they are random selection of the population, or are they a self-selected group like the posters on this forum?
What sort of lists have they been using? If someone doesn't use any lists at all, then 100% of what they do won't appear on any lists. But that could hardly be seen as a criticism of lists.
At the opposite extreme if someone is using a "done list" then 100% of what they do will appear on their lists.
All of which is intended not as a defence of lists, but to show that without further definition the statement is basically meaningless.
October 2, 2014 at 0:28 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Hi Mark,
Of course, you are right to be suspicious of numbers like that. And yes, it does fall prey to some of the problems you mention. They briefly describe the source: analysis of usage of their app.
Even with a self-selected group and an app that focuses on "done lists", I found the number interesting enough to want to validate it for my own case. Over a period of a few weeks, I found the number to be about right. Most of the things I ended up doing were the result of schedule, habit, things weighing on my mind, spontaneous interaction with my colleagues or my environment, and so on. Only a small amount originated from any kind of written or digital list or notes or task items or the like.
I guess the best way to evaluate the number for oneself is to undergo a similar exercise of self-observation, and then draw ones own conclusions.
Of course, you are right to be suspicious of numbers like that. And yes, it does fall prey to some of the problems you mention. They briefly describe the source: analysis of usage of their app.
Even with a self-selected group and an app that focuses on "done lists", I found the number interesting enough to want to validate it for my own case. Over a period of a few weeks, I found the number to be about right. Most of the things I ended up doing were the result of schedule, habit, things weighing on my mind, spontaneous interaction with my colleagues or my environment, and so on. Only a small amount originated from any kind of written or digital list or notes or task items or the like.
I guess the best way to evaluate the number for oneself is to undergo a similar exercise of self-observation, and then draw ones own conclusions.
October 2, 2014 at 4:10 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
Accepting that the data is completely reliable, I'm still not sure that it bears the interpretation that they are giving it.
To take your own example, time management lists are not designed to cover things like scheduled items, routine habits and so on. Nor are they designed to deal with the "immediate" category of urgency (as decribed in Do It Tomorrow), which would cover much of what you describe as spontaneous interaction with the environment and colleagues.
As for the things weighing on your mind, perhaps they are weighing on your mind because you didn't write them down.
Accepting that the data is completely reliable, I'm still not sure that it bears the interpretation that they are giving it.
To take your own example, time management lists are not designed to cover things like scheduled items, routine habits and so on. Nor are they designed to deal with the "immediate" category of urgency (as decribed in Do It Tomorrow), which would cover much of what you describe as spontaneous interaction with the environment and colleagues.
As for the things weighing on your mind, perhaps they are weighing on your mind because you didn't write them down.
October 2, 2014 at 7:59 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Yes, this is exactly the point I was raising with my first post on this thread. Time management lists don't address these areas -- yet these areas are responsible for a very significant percentage of the results. Finding a good way to manage my lists is very useful, but accounts for a relatively small percentage of the results. Finding good ways to manage schedule, habits, urgent off-list items, etc. -- in other words, basic structures and systems beyond the list mechanisms -- can have a much more significant impact on the results.
My personal experience has been that it's important to have a basically functional way to handle inboxes and task lists -- if these are not functional at all, the resulting chaos will make it very hard to get anything done at all. But once there are some basic useful routines and habits in place, it can be a mistake to continue focusing on optimizing inbox and list management. It can be more impactful to focus on other areas that are still dysfunctional (or simply have more opportunity for improvement) - like structures, systems, habits, environment, schedule, calendar management, etc.
My personal experience has been that it's important to have a basically functional way to handle inboxes and task lists -- if these are not functional at all, the resulting chaos will make it very hard to get anything done at all. But once there are some basic useful routines and habits in place, it can be a mistake to continue focusing on optimizing inbox and list management. It can be more impactful to focus on other areas that are still dysfunctional (or simply have more opportunity for improvement) - like structures, systems, habits, environment, schedule, calendar management, etc.
October 2, 2014 at 19:32 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
In other words exactly what my book is about.
In other words exactly what my book is about.
October 2, 2014 at 23:11 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Great!! :-) Looking forward to it.
October 2, 2014 at 23:35 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Optimist,
Welcome!
<I've had a lifelong aversion to routine, habit and calendars... anything that felt like it reduced my options for making my choices right in the moment, right now.>
I think of them as ladders, not straight jackets. Or maybe lifejackets, depending on the week. Maybe guard rails on the ladder, or a safety net. When I turn something into a routine or habit, it happens. The things that aren't happening are things that I haven't been able to anchor to a routine. When I use my calendar enough to trust it, I'm where I need to be, when I need to be there, with everything done, and I don't over-commit. When I skip my Monday review, the week goes nowhere. When I skip any step of my morning routine, nothing else gets done.
Until we see Mark's new system, I'm still a fan of lists, but you need to prune them ruthlessly. Not what you should do, or could do in a perfect world, or what others could do. Just what you can realistically do in the available time. If you feel guilty taking something off the list, or just doing it "well enough", move it to a different list. It's a feeling of relief to finally admit that something isn't going to get done.
Welcome!
<I've had a lifelong aversion to routine, habit and calendars... anything that felt like it reduced my options for making my choices right in the moment, right now.>
I think of them as ladders, not straight jackets. Or maybe lifejackets, depending on the week. Maybe guard rails on the ladder, or a safety net. When I turn something into a routine or habit, it happens. The things that aren't happening are things that I haven't been able to anchor to a routine. When I use my calendar enough to trust it, I'm where I need to be, when I need to be there, with everything done, and I don't over-commit. When I skip my Monday review, the week goes nowhere. When I skip any step of my morning routine, nothing else gets done.
Until we see Mark's new system, I'm still a fan of lists, but you need to prune them ruthlessly. Not what you should do, or could do in a perfect world, or what others could do. Just what you can realistically do in the available time. If you feel guilty taking something off the list, or just doing it "well enough", move it to a different list. It's a feeling of relief to finally admit that something isn't going to get done.
October 6, 2014 at 3:08 |
Cricket
Cricket
I concur with Cricket's assessment of habits, routine, and calendar. Figuring out the problem areas, then solving them with a new habit, routine, or adjustment to my calendar, puts the solution on auto-pilot so I don't have to think about it any more. This has the effect (perhaps counter-intuitive) of allowing me lots of creative freedom and focus in the times I've allotted for it and in the down times between other commitments.
Checklists are an example - they are so simple but can be so incredibly helpful. I keep a checklist of exactly what to pack for day-trips when I need to travel by air for business. It's a short list of exactly what to pack, where to pack it, and what order to pack it in. I have a second list for trips that may last a night or two. This has reduced so much travel stress -- I was previously always forgetting my power cable, for example. And it was so simple. It just took a few minutes to think through it and write it all down on my cell phone where I can easily find it later, and easily tweak it if I think of an improvement. It allows me to think about my trip and the people I'll be meeting and why we are meeting, rather than worrying about logistics.
The Checklist Manifesto (book) gives lots of examples of this kind - big and small.
The Power of Habit (book) also has great insights and examples.
I'm reading a new book by Andy Core, Change Your Day, Not Your Life, which has many insights on the same theme.
Checklists are an example - they are so simple but can be so incredibly helpful. I keep a checklist of exactly what to pack for day-trips when I need to travel by air for business. It's a short list of exactly what to pack, where to pack it, and what order to pack it in. I have a second list for trips that may last a night or two. This has reduced so much travel stress -- I was previously always forgetting my power cable, for example. And it was so simple. It just took a few minutes to think through it and write it all down on my cell phone where I can easily find it later, and easily tweak it if I think of an improvement. It allows me to think about my trip and the people I'll be meeting and why we are meeting, rather than worrying about logistics.
The Checklist Manifesto (book) gives lots of examples of this kind - big and small.
The Power of Habit (book) also has great insights and examples.
I'm reading a new book by Andy Core, Change Your Day, Not Your Life, which has many insights on the same theme.
October 6, 2014 at 6:35 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Cricket:
Thank you.
Looking at your paragraph starting <<I think of them as ladders, not straight jackets >> …
Now there’s a brand new image to visualise. Routines as lifejackets and guardrails? I’d never have thought of that in a zillion years. It’s a real perspective-flip. Turns a negative into a positive. What a great image for me to carry forward Cricket. Thank you.
And in para 2 you say : <<… lists, but you need to prune them ruthlessly>>
Ouch. I can’t do that. Never could. If it’s on the list it can’t be deleted. I know, I know, dismissal is a core concept for many of Mark’s systems. But really and truly, once I put a task on a list, I’ve acknowledged both it’s existence and the need to do it. So how then can I kill it?
Dismissal feels like an admission of failure on my part. It never feels like the task has ultimately failed to prove itself worthy of being done. Rather, it’s me that has failed to be worthy by not doing the task.
This of course rapidly leads to a list containing more tasks than there is time in which to do them. So in the absence of pruning, the tasks live quietly on my list until they either: (a) die of neglect and old age, and wait to be given a decent burial in the paper recycling bin in a year or so; or (b) mutate into a seething mass of crises and career-damaging horror that just needs to be done NOW.
Actually, having verbalised this, it simply looks like a weak and avoidant approach. Instead of me making the decision about the task – does it really need to be done, or is it simply a seed that failed to sprout – I ‘m waiting for the world to make the decision for me. Which of course can have peculiarly painful consequences.
Thank you.
Looking at your paragraph starting <<I think of them as ladders, not straight jackets >> …
Now there’s a brand new image to visualise. Routines as lifejackets and guardrails? I’d never have thought of that in a zillion years. It’s a real perspective-flip. Turns a negative into a positive. What a great image for me to carry forward Cricket. Thank you.
And in para 2 you say : <<… lists, but you need to prune them ruthlessly>>
Ouch. I can’t do that. Never could. If it’s on the list it can’t be deleted. I know, I know, dismissal is a core concept for many of Mark’s systems. But really and truly, once I put a task on a list, I’ve acknowledged both it’s existence and the need to do it. So how then can I kill it?
Dismissal feels like an admission of failure on my part. It never feels like the task has ultimately failed to prove itself worthy of being done. Rather, it’s me that has failed to be worthy by not doing the task.
This of course rapidly leads to a list containing more tasks than there is time in which to do them. So in the absence of pruning, the tasks live quietly on my list until they either: (a) die of neglect and old age, and wait to be given a decent burial in the paper recycling bin in a year or so; or (b) mutate into a seething mass of crises and career-damaging horror that just needs to be done NOW.
Actually, having verbalised this, it simply looks like a weak and avoidant approach. Instead of me making the decision about the task – does it really need to be done, or is it simply a seed that failed to sprout – I ‘m waiting for the world to make the decision for me. Which of course can have peculiarly painful consequences.
October 6, 2014 at 12:21 |
Optimist
Optimist
Seraphim said:
<<Figuring out the problem areas, then solving them with a new habit, routine, or adjustment to my calendar, puts the solution on auto-pilot so I don't have to think about it any more. This has the effect (perhaps counter-intuitive) of allowing me lots of creative freedom and focus in the times I've allotted for it and in the down times between other commitments.>>
I can’t tell you how often I’ve finished my month-end reporting to my boss in a flat panic because it all took longer than I expected; or a crisis erupted in the middle of me doing it and I had no leeway built in to accommodate it; or I couldn’t quite remember what I did last month, so have to look back over old stuff and re-invent the wheel… again…
I think I remember reading Mark say somewhere we should ‘routine-ise’ as much stuff as we possibly could. The idea didn’t take hold with me at the time. My fault for superficial reading.
I’ve always seen myself as being very good at winging it and pulling victory (of sorts) from the jaws of disaster. Routines and calendars felt like / feel like drudgery and punishment, to say nothing of very very boring. But maybe the absence of drama which routine promotes is the sound of a job done properly. Maybe doing a barely-good-enough job as a result by ‘winging it’ is only great if the ‘winging it’ could not be avoided in the first place.
How far do you go with habits, routines and calendar?
<<Figuring out the problem areas, then solving them with a new habit, routine, or adjustment to my calendar, puts the solution on auto-pilot so I don't have to think about it any more. This has the effect (perhaps counter-intuitive) of allowing me lots of creative freedom and focus in the times I've allotted for it and in the down times between other commitments.>>
I can’t tell you how often I’ve finished my month-end reporting to my boss in a flat panic because it all took longer than I expected; or a crisis erupted in the middle of me doing it and I had no leeway built in to accommodate it; or I couldn’t quite remember what I did last month, so have to look back over old stuff and re-invent the wheel… again…
I think I remember reading Mark say somewhere we should ‘routine-ise’ as much stuff as we possibly could. The idea didn’t take hold with me at the time. My fault for superficial reading.
I’ve always seen myself as being very good at winging it and pulling victory (of sorts) from the jaws of disaster. Routines and calendars felt like / feel like drudgery and punishment, to say nothing of very very boring. But maybe the absence of drama which routine promotes is the sound of a job done properly. Maybe doing a barely-good-enough job as a result by ‘winging it’ is only great if the ‘winging it’ could not be avoided in the first place.
How far do you go with habits, routines and calendar?
October 6, 2014 at 12:26 |
Optimist
Optimist
<< How far do you go with habits, routines and calendar? >>
It's easy to go too far: trying to schedule everything. That doesn't work (for me, at least). It really is too inflexible and unsustainable.
Here is what worked for me: start by blocking out two hours a week (in a solid contiguous block of time) for focus work on my biggest priority.
When I found I had trouble getting myself to follow this, I looked closely at the underlying habits that made me resist doing it. I tried to think hard and creatively, what is ONE HABIT I could establish, that would help me to keep this block of time successfully and consistently. And then applied the ideas from The Power of Habit to enforce and build that habit. If it didn't work, I would try a different approach: identify a different habit to try, all with the purpose of establishing a regular two-hour block every week for focus work -- no excuses.
Brute force, "just do it", never worked for me. Tricks like "just get out the file" are often helpful, but didn't give me significant, sustainable results. But after two or three false starts, I found a habit that worked for me. Initially it was: one or two days a week, get up early and get out the door to the office ASAP (cup of coffee in hand!), arrive at the office (fully caffeinated) and throw my project papers down on my desk so I had no choice but to start working on it. This gave me about an hour and a half of quiet time to work on my project before the regular work day got into full swing.
After a few weeks, I found I didn't need to throw my papers on my desk any more -- I could just start working. But I did need to establish ahead of time, exactly what my Focus Work project would be: which file to open, which OneNote section to review, etc.
This success allowed me to expand: to start blocking off some more time here and there on my calendar for focus work, and to have more confidence I would actually use the time for that purpose. :-)
It also made me realize I needed some dedicated time for miscellaneous tasks -- otherwise they were a distraction from the focus work. So, I blocked off 30 minutes at end of day to clear inboxes and take care of as many one-off tasks as I could.
Over the months, this overall routine has stayed constant in some ways, but has changed in others. For example, our family school schedule has changed, and I need to drop off my son at school, so I can't leave home really early like I used to. But the basic principles have been working consistently.
Anyway, my main point is:
(1) Start with some small and simple change to my calendar that I know will make a difference (for me, it was 2 hours of focus work per week)
(2) Focus on ONE HABIT that will help me establish the small and simple thing I want to do. If it doesn't work, think about why, then try another approach. (See Charles Duhigg book)
(3) Cycle/repeat, and let it grow from there.
BTW, I described Duhigg's central idea about habit formation in this post:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2252333#post2258150
It's easy to go too far: trying to schedule everything. That doesn't work (for me, at least). It really is too inflexible and unsustainable.
Here is what worked for me: start by blocking out two hours a week (in a solid contiguous block of time) for focus work on my biggest priority.
When I found I had trouble getting myself to follow this, I looked closely at the underlying habits that made me resist doing it. I tried to think hard and creatively, what is ONE HABIT I could establish, that would help me to keep this block of time successfully and consistently. And then applied the ideas from The Power of Habit to enforce and build that habit. If it didn't work, I would try a different approach: identify a different habit to try, all with the purpose of establishing a regular two-hour block every week for focus work -- no excuses.
Brute force, "just do it", never worked for me. Tricks like "just get out the file" are often helpful, but didn't give me significant, sustainable results. But after two or three false starts, I found a habit that worked for me. Initially it was: one or two days a week, get up early and get out the door to the office ASAP (cup of coffee in hand!), arrive at the office (fully caffeinated) and throw my project papers down on my desk so I had no choice but to start working on it. This gave me about an hour and a half of quiet time to work on my project before the regular work day got into full swing.
After a few weeks, I found I didn't need to throw my papers on my desk any more -- I could just start working. But I did need to establish ahead of time, exactly what my Focus Work project would be: which file to open, which OneNote section to review, etc.
This success allowed me to expand: to start blocking off some more time here and there on my calendar for focus work, and to have more confidence I would actually use the time for that purpose. :-)
It also made me realize I needed some dedicated time for miscellaneous tasks -- otherwise they were a distraction from the focus work. So, I blocked off 30 minutes at end of day to clear inboxes and take care of as many one-off tasks as I could.
Over the months, this overall routine has stayed constant in some ways, but has changed in others. For example, our family school schedule has changed, and I need to drop off my son at school, so I can't leave home really early like I used to. But the basic principles have been working consistently.
Anyway, my main point is:
(1) Start with some small and simple change to my calendar that I know will make a difference (for me, it was 2 hours of focus work per week)
(2) Focus on ONE HABIT that will help me establish the small and simple thing I want to do. If it doesn't work, think about why, then try another approach. (See Charles Duhigg book)
(3) Cycle/repeat, and let it grow from there.
BTW, I described Duhigg's central idea about habit formation in this post:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2252333#post2258150
October 6, 2014 at 21:59 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
<< Here is what worked for me: start by blocking out two hours a week (in a solid contiguous block of time) for focus work on my biggest priority. >>
For me my biggest priority at the present time is writing my new book, and I've succeeded in writing over 1,000 words a day every day *without* blocking off any time to do it.
I also wanted an example project to illustrate certain points in the book, so I chose learning Chinese. I've also succeeded in doing at least an hour's work on it every day - again without blocking any time off for it.
All my other commitments are up-to-date as well.
I'd love to tell you how to do it, but I'm afraid you're going to have to wait until the book comes out next Summer!
<< Here is what worked for me: start by blocking out two hours a week (in a solid contiguous block of time) for focus work on my biggest priority. >>
For me my biggest priority at the present time is writing my new book, and I've succeeded in writing over 1,000 words a day every day *without* blocking off any time to do it.
I also wanted an example project to illustrate certain points in the book, so I chose learning Chinese. I've also succeeded in doing at least an hour's work on it every day - again without blocking any time off for it.
All my other commitments are up-to-date as well.
I'd love to tell you how to do it, but I'm afraid you're going to have to wait until the book comes out next Summer!
October 7, 2014 at 8:23 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark:
Don't know if that would really be in your own best interest. I personally cannot imagine a reader of this blog who would not buy your new book, no matter what.
And the prepublication of your new method - which is only a small part of the book as you said - might help to turn the success of your book from HUGE to M O N S T R O U S.
Don't know if that would really be in your own best interest. I personally cannot imagine a reader of this blog who would not buy your new book, no matter what.
And the prepublication of your new method - which is only a small part of the book as you said - might help to turn the success of your book from HUGE to M O N S T R O U S.
October 8, 2014 at 11:30 |
laby
laby
Optimist,
I'm glad you found my comments helpful.
I think we've all had too many things on our list. I know I have, and I will again. I go through expansion and contraction phases.
Failing to do something you intended to do is a failure. It's small and unavoidable, but it's still failure. And it's normal to feel a bit bad about it. As long as fear of failure doesn't stop you from accepting challenges, and you don't spend so much time feeling bad about failing that you don't find and fix the problem, it's not a problem.
Your month-end report reminds me of a recent article in an ADHD blog. It discusses the fantasies we often have with time. Our ideas of how long things will take are unrealistic, to say the least. We think of how long we'd like it to take, or how long it should take, or how long we think it would take a coworker. Notice the lack of how long it will take us, in the real world, where printers run out of ink and brains are fried from being up half the night with a sick kid and half our staff hasn't sent in the reports we need to summarize and we lost the link to the website we need. Her solution is actually recording how long things really take us. Hard, objective, data. Plan based on that. If things take less time than planned, great! Take the well-earned break, or work ahead on something. If over time you get faster at making the reports, you can always change the plan with the new data.
There are several tools for tracking time actually spent. Some are simple. Some get into energy levels and other things. Some are on task-switch, others record what you're doing when the bell goes off.
Yep, if you don't feel the adrenaline from sneaking under the wire, it doesn't feel done. Adrenalin is a reward. Can you move the reward forward in time? I often use milestones. Entirely personal deadlines, easy enough to move, but a little thrill each time I meet one (and panic if I don't). I can tell with enough time to adjust if a project will take more time than planned. By looking at all the milestones for the month, I can see if the last half of the month is over-booked, and move some forward. Plenty of adrenaline there, just think about what will happen if I leave it all till the end!
Different people work differently. What works best for me this month might fail miserably next month. Mark doesn't like blocking out time, and works fine without it. Seraphim finds it worked wonders. I find a routine and looking ahead works best, but am often thrown off. Learning finds "just do it" works best, with some small, well-defined loopholes to allow just enough freedom when needed, with her eye firmly on the prize of clearing the decks and free time. Serpahim finds just do it doesn't work at all.
Seraphim, I hear you on the checklists! The drive to the cottage is much more enjoyable if I know we have everything. They even help with little things, like medicine and floss _before_ brushing my teeth. Once my teeth are brushed, I think I'm done for the night.
Thanks for sharing your one habit story. The next time one habit feels too tiny to make a difference (that is, every day!), I'll remember that it made a difference for you.
I'm glad you found my comments helpful.
I think we've all had too many things on our list. I know I have, and I will again. I go through expansion and contraction phases.
Failing to do something you intended to do is a failure. It's small and unavoidable, but it's still failure. And it's normal to feel a bit bad about it. As long as fear of failure doesn't stop you from accepting challenges, and you don't spend so much time feeling bad about failing that you don't find and fix the problem, it's not a problem.
Your month-end report reminds me of a recent article in an ADHD blog. It discusses the fantasies we often have with time. Our ideas of how long things will take are unrealistic, to say the least. We think of how long we'd like it to take, or how long it should take, or how long we think it would take a coworker. Notice the lack of how long it will take us, in the real world, where printers run out of ink and brains are fried from being up half the night with a sick kid and half our staff hasn't sent in the reports we need to summarize and we lost the link to the website we need. Her solution is actually recording how long things really take us. Hard, objective, data. Plan based on that. If things take less time than planned, great! Take the well-earned break, or work ahead on something. If over time you get faster at making the reports, you can always change the plan with the new data.
There are several tools for tracking time actually spent. Some are simple. Some get into energy levels and other things. Some are on task-switch, others record what you're doing when the bell goes off.
Yep, if you don't feel the adrenaline from sneaking under the wire, it doesn't feel done. Adrenalin is a reward. Can you move the reward forward in time? I often use milestones. Entirely personal deadlines, easy enough to move, but a little thrill each time I meet one (and panic if I don't). I can tell with enough time to adjust if a project will take more time than planned. By looking at all the milestones for the month, I can see if the last half of the month is over-booked, and move some forward. Plenty of adrenaline there, just think about what will happen if I leave it all till the end!
Different people work differently. What works best for me this month might fail miserably next month. Mark doesn't like blocking out time, and works fine without it. Seraphim finds it worked wonders. I find a routine and looking ahead works best, but am often thrown off. Learning finds "just do it" works best, with some small, well-defined loopholes to allow just enough freedom when needed, with her eye firmly on the prize of clearing the decks and free time. Serpahim finds just do it doesn't work at all.
Seraphim, I hear you on the checklists! The drive to the cottage is much more enjoyable if I know we have everything. They even help with little things, like medicine and floss _before_ brushing my teeth. Once my teeth are brushed, I think I'm done for the night.
Thanks for sharing your one habit story. The next time one habit feels too tiny to make a difference (that is, every day!), I'll remember that it made a difference for you.
October 8, 2014 at 18:05 |
Cricket
Cricket
Also, when saying no to something, think about what you're saying yes to. Be wild and creative. Often, by saying no to something, we're saying yes to the possibility of important, abstract things that we don't traditionally put on our todo lists -- but those things are important, and worth saying yes to.
October 8, 2014 at 18:11 |
Cricket
Cricket
Cricket:
<< Mark doesn't like blocking out time >>
I didn't say that. Blocking out time is something I've always advised for certain projects.
It's just that now I've found a better method.
<< Mark doesn't like blocking out time >>
I didn't say that. Blocking out time is something I've always advised for certain projects.
It's just that now I've found a better method.
October 9, 2014 at 21:43 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
>> For me my biggest priority at the present time is writing my new book, and I've succeeded in writing over 1,000 words a day every day *without* blocking off any time to do it.
>> I also wanted an example project to illustrate certain points in the book, so I chose learning Chinese. I've also succeeded in doing at least an hour's work on it every day - again without blocking any time off for it.
So blocking is useful for some projects but not others? Not being sarcastic. Some projects, and some people, and even some seasons, different tools work differently. For things I want to do, blocking works great. It gives me permission to do them, despite all those other things trying to get attention. If I leave them until other things are done, chances are I stall on everything. Things I don't want to do, deadline is more motivating than block, but I don't enjoy working that way.
>> I also wanted an example project to illustrate certain points in the book, so I chose learning Chinese. I've also succeeded in doing at least an hour's work on it every day - again without blocking any time off for it.
So blocking is useful for some projects but not others? Not being sarcastic. Some projects, and some people, and even some seasons, different tools work differently. For things I want to do, blocking works great. It gives me permission to do them, despite all those other things trying to get attention. If I leave them until other things are done, chances are I stall on everything. Things I don't want to do, deadline is more motivating than block, but I don't enjoy working that way.
October 10, 2014 at 15:18 |
Cricket
Cricket
For me, right now, the biggest benefit of time blocking (actually entering the appointment onto my Outlook calendar) is to discourage my coworkers from filling my whole calendar with meetings.
October 10, 2014 at 20:58 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Jealous! Even if I block out time on the calendar, something else jumps up that we don't have the option of changing.
October 11, 2014 at 13:08 |
Cricket
Cricket
I occasionally block time where needed. I've got something I need to do at work which will take around 12-16 hours and has been outstanding, but not urgent, for a couple of months. It's starting to become more urgent but the reason it's not been done yet is because of reactive things taking precedence (which is fine because that's the nature of my job). So I've decided I'm doing it tomorrow. I've blocked out the day, will set my out of office, disconnect Outlook from Exchange, close Lync, put the phone on do not disturb (which is great because if there's a second call within a few minutes it does ring) and get it all done. There are already some ongoing more urgent things which would take precedence if I didn't, but they'll survive one day.
October 13, 2014 at 14:30 |
Chris
Chris
Cricket: I didn't say this strategy always works! :-)
October 14, 2014 at 16:14 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
My own experience: when I resist something deeply, any system becomes a proxy for that resistance, i.e I won't open the notebook, start the app or look at the list in the first place. We blame the system, start a new one, pick a new tool, get through a new few days of honeymoon, until the resistance kicks in again.
In simple terms, we resist something almost always out of fear; one answer is to address that fear, not its manifestations.
Can be fear of others, fear of mediocrity (if we produce nothing, the fiction of our excellence remains alive), fear of failure or success, fear of negative consequences etc ..
Fears are caused by beliefs. Most of the tasks are relatively safe but appear to be risky to us because of some association we make - some "charge" we load them with because of past beliefs. These beliefs are mostly unconscious, inherited from childhood; we never challenge them because we are not even aware of the way we think.
(Put in another way: most of the tasks are safe for people who assume they are, do them, learn something and keep going: see Albert Bandura on self efficacy concept. Mostly they learn that our actions do not matter a lot because the world is a complex place, which confirm that most tasks are really safe, etc..)
When we resist a task because of the discomfort created by an unconscious fear and we try to use a tool to fix that, it's too late. We already lost the internal battle between "should" and "fear". What we do is trying to fight deeply deep emotions with our rational self. It works sometimes, but is never sustainable.
One solution I found working is to get back to that internal battle, at its roots, with the ABCD method. Pick up an index card. Write what you resist on top. Write why (the Beliefs), the Consequences (it's going to get worst tomorrow), then Dispute your own assumptions on bottom (maybe I can do this instead ..).
Of course your will resist writing that card too, so keep it simple and handy: pen and paper
In simple terms, we resist something almost always out of fear; one answer is to address that fear, not its manifestations.
Can be fear of others, fear of mediocrity (if we produce nothing, the fiction of our excellence remains alive), fear of failure or success, fear of negative consequences etc ..
Fears are caused by beliefs. Most of the tasks are relatively safe but appear to be risky to us because of some association we make - some "charge" we load them with because of past beliefs. These beliefs are mostly unconscious, inherited from childhood; we never challenge them because we are not even aware of the way we think.
(Put in another way: most of the tasks are safe for people who assume they are, do them, learn something and keep going: see Albert Bandura on self efficacy concept. Mostly they learn that our actions do not matter a lot because the world is a complex place, which confirm that most tasks are really safe, etc..)
When we resist a task because of the discomfort created by an unconscious fear and we try to use a tool to fix that, it's too late. We already lost the internal battle between "should" and "fear". What we do is trying to fight deeply deep emotions with our rational self. It works sometimes, but is never sustainable.
One solution I found working is to get back to that internal battle, at its roots, with the ABCD method. Pick up an index card. Write what you resist on top. Write why (the Beliefs), the Consequences (it's going to get worst tomorrow), then Dispute your own assumptions on bottom (maybe I can do this instead ..).
Of course your will resist writing that card too, so keep it simple and handy: pen and paper
November 17, 2014 at 16:25 |
Ardant
Ardant
Another step (optional) is to think about the worst that can happen. Catastrophizing is when you think the worst is going to happen, so you can't focus on what you need to do here and now, or don't take the risk. Taking it to an extreme often puts things in perspective. And, sometimes you realize you were right to be afraid, and put in a few more safety rails.
I often bull through the fear, since pausing to relax gives me more time to get scared. That doesn't work in singing, though. Tensing up ruins every aspect of the sound, which makes you more scared. Yep, singing lessons as therapy. Actually surprisingly useful.
I often bull through the fear, since pausing to relax gives me more time to get scared. That doesn't work in singing, though. Tensing up ruins every aspect of the sound, which makes you more scared. Yep, singing lessons as therapy. Actually surprisingly useful.
November 17, 2014 at 20:27 |
Cricket
Cricket
This thread has now been locked due to its size. Please feel free to continue the discussion on a new thread.
December 11, 2014 at 21:32 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I love this site. I think Mark Forster is a genius. The forum is full of wonderful people. So I read, I get inspired, I am very happy writing stuff down on lists, and I am happy creating or learning systems to work the lists. Especially Mark's, as they are so wisely thought out.
Then after making the lists and learning the systems I kinda forget about them and pretty soon it's back to urgency driving everything, panic ensues, and it's time to write a list.
Rinse and repeat. It's embarrassing. And not very productive.
How do you all get yourselves to actually use the systems, and do the work?
Any thoughts please?