Discussion Forum > Other TM Systems
ad Linenberger - yes, I tried it, it did not work for me, although I liked his theory (sorting by reverse date and limiting current focus to 20 or so tasks.) But I missed daily review, categorising tasks by projects/areas and - mainly - methods which could help me to actually work with the tasks. Linenberger shows you new way how to sort and limit tasks. OK. But for me - system is something what also helps me to work on (start) tasks.
ad Wade - I read the book, was not impressed much. I did not see any new idea above classic TM books.
ad Wade - I read the book, was not impressed much. I did not see any new idea above classic TM books.
December 17, 2014 at 22:23 |
Daneb
Daneb
I read Linenberger's e-book on using Microsoft Outlook and gleaned some useful ideas.
Mainly: For several months, I used his idea to convert all actionable emails to Outlook tasks, as well as creating tasks for whatever I needed (especially recurring tasks), and then SORT TASKS BY REVERSE DATE.
Eventually this led to the realization that there was really no need to try to process this list to "done". The most recent tasks were always the freshest and most relevant tasks. I would just work through the list whenever I had time (spending most of my effort trying to be more effective at deeper focus work, and managing my calendar and habits).
If something got old, it usually got stale and irrelevant, so it didn't matter if it dropped way down the list where I never saw it. If it was still important to somebody, they would usually let me know (and thus move to the top of the list again). :-)
Ultimately, this lent support to my current belief that finding the optimal list-processing algorithm isn't the best use of my time. Sorting by most-recent is really quite good enough, especially for the one-off and random tasks and requests. I still think it's fun to discuss and explore list-processing ideas from time to time, but they don't get me nearly as excited as they used to do.
Mainly: For several months, I used his idea to convert all actionable emails to Outlook tasks, as well as creating tasks for whatever I needed (especially recurring tasks), and then SORT TASKS BY REVERSE DATE.
Eventually this led to the realization that there was really no need to try to process this list to "done". The most recent tasks were always the freshest and most relevant tasks. I would just work through the list whenever I had time (spending most of my effort trying to be more effective at deeper focus work, and managing my calendar and habits).
If something got old, it usually got stale and irrelevant, so it didn't matter if it dropped way down the list where I never saw it. If it was still important to somebody, they would usually let me know (and thus move to the top of the list again). :-)
Ultimately, this lent support to my current belief that finding the optimal list-processing algorithm isn't the best use of my time. Sorting by most-recent is really quite good enough, especially for the one-off and random tasks and requests. I still think it's fun to discuss and explore list-processing ideas from time to time, but they don't get me nearly as excited as they used to do.
December 18, 2014 at 2:45 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Francis Wade's Time Management Adventure book held out a lot of promise, but I don't think it delivered. There are a few nuggets in that book, but nothing really new that I could see.
His idea that there isn't a single time management method that fits all people, but rather a spectrum of techniques and habits and tools that indicate varying levels of maturity and skill, seemed like a rather innovative idea, but ultimately it seemed to fall flat. There just wasn't much meat there, and I kept thinking, "If only he would read Mark Forster..." :-)
It was a fun read, at least at first, obviously modeled after The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt (who kicked off this whole "business parable" genre back in the 80's), but not really as insightful or satisfying.
His idea that there isn't a single time management method that fits all people, but rather a spectrum of techniques and habits and tools that indicate varying levels of maturity and skill, seemed like a rather innovative idea, but ultimately it seemed to fall flat. There just wasn't much meat there, and I kept thinking, "If only he would read Mark Forster..." :-)
It was a fun read, at least at first, obviously modeled after The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt (who kicked off this whole "business parable" genre back in the 80's), but not really as insightful or satisfying.
December 18, 2014 at 2:50 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Still a fan of Covey's top down, principled-driven 7 Habits (particularly 1, 2, 3, & 7).
I've found benefit in mucking around with all TM systems, and cobbling together something that works for me.
I can move mountains when I have most of these in place:
1. Real deadlines, with real consequences
2. An audience, or the likelihood of one
3. A muse
I've found benefit in mucking around with all TM systems, and cobbling together something that works for me.
I can move mountains when I have most of these in place:
1. Real deadlines, with real consequences
2. An audience, or the likelihood of one
3. A muse
December 18, 2014 at 3:07 |
avrum
avrum
here is a link to our discussion on Linnenbergers book when it came out:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/1038695
maybe you like to check out Mark Hurst's "bit literacy?" it has a similar todo list and email list, based on time horizons etc but is a much earlier (and imho better) work.
http://bitliteracy.com/
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/1038695
maybe you like to check out Mark Hurst's "bit literacy?" it has a similar todo list and email list, based on time horizons etc but is a much earlier (and imho better) work.
http://bitliteracy.com/
December 18, 2014 at 4:25 |
Christopher
Christopher
Looks like Francis Wade is releasing a new book:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PY5X52Q
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PY5X52Q
December 18, 2014 at 15:10 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
It looks like Melanie got an early review of Francis Wade's new book! Here is what she is quoted as saying on Amazon:
Francis' book isn't a one-size-fits-all approach to getting more done, nor is it simply a choose-what-works-for-you approach. Instead, it's a research-based framework for evaluating and improving the way you manage tasks... This book is my prescription for task overwhelm. It works! Melanie Wilson, Ph.D., Psychowith6.com
Can you tell us more?? :-)
Francis' book isn't a one-size-fits-all approach to getting more done, nor is it simply a choose-what-works-for-you approach. Instead, it's a research-based framework for evaluating and improving the way you manage tasks... This book is my prescription for task overwhelm. It works! Melanie Wilson, Ph.D., Psychowith6.com
Can you tell us more?? :-)
December 18, 2014 at 19:56 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Stack Exchange has a productivity community: http://productivity.stackexchange.com/
I found a few fresh approaches in there. Nothing particularly innovative, but worth a look.
I found a few fresh approaches in there. Nothing particularly innovative, but worth a look.
December 18, 2014 at 20:16 |
Simon
Simon
Thanks for your contributions.
I experienced some systems ( Covey, Getting results the agile way, personal kanban) but I came to this conclusion: you either make the system work or it won't!
I also think resistance is a problem facing the implementation of any system; I often have this mind voice in the background: are you sure this system will work for you? aren't you tired of following another guru's system?...
I experienced some systems ( Covey, Getting results the agile way, personal kanban) but I came to this conclusion: you either make the system work or it won't!
I also think resistance is a problem facing the implementation of any system; I often have this mind voice in the background: are you sure this system will work for you? aren't you tired of following another guru's system?...
December 18, 2014 at 20:57 |
Abderrafie
Abderrafie
My last post was a bit vague -- here's a thread from stack exchange I found interesting:
http://productivity.stackexchange.com/questions/12096/how-to-handle-continuous-accumulation-of-multiple-personal-projects-and-goals-si/12098#12098
The first answer was excellent and brings up an issue that has bothered me for a while about list-based time management systems -- there are only so many hours in the week, and the more you have on your list, the more you are spreading yourself thin and making little meaningful progress on anything.
Of course we all know that time is short, but when you sit down and work through the numbers, there really aren't that many free hours in a week. Everyone is different, but I would imagine a typical working person with a commute has maybe 2 or 3 free hours in the evening on work days, maybe 10-12 on the weekend. So maybe 20-30 hours available during the week for personal projects and activities.
Borrowing an example from the world of books, a typical novel takes me 10-15 hours to read. If I read for an hour a day (7 hours a week, or 23-35% of the theoretical 20-30 hours), it takes almost two weeks to finish a novel. If I had four novels on my AutoFocus list, and I read them when they stood out or when the time was right, it would take eight weeks to finish them. If I took a "little and often" approach and read four novels for 20 minutes at a time, then it would take 24 weeks, or almost half a year. To me that is way too slow, and really runs the risk that I'm just going to get bored or lose interest in some of them partway along. I'd rather just take one novel and plough through it for an hour a day for two weeks until it is finished.
In fact my experience putting books in AutoFocus 1 (still my favourite TM system, BTW!) was that I ended up with 8-10 titles and didn't make much progress on any of them. Eventually I realized AutoFocus wasn't suited to managing a book list, and so I decided to just set aside an hour a day to read one book at a time until it was done.
If you think of reading a novel as a "project" comparable to the other projects on your AutoFocus list, then you can see how even just having a list of 20 or 30 items is going to dilute your attention and energy so much that you really aren't going to make meaningful progress anywhere. With 20-30 available hours, you've got no more than an hour available for each task. But I would wager that an hour or two a week is not going to lead to any meaningful progress, and that it would be better to narrow the 30 items down to say 3 or 4 items, and then work 5-10 hours per week on those 3-4 items.
http://productivity.stackexchange.com/questions/12096/how-to-handle-continuous-accumulation-of-multiple-personal-projects-and-goals-si/12098#12098
The first answer was excellent and brings up an issue that has bothered me for a while about list-based time management systems -- there are only so many hours in the week, and the more you have on your list, the more you are spreading yourself thin and making little meaningful progress on anything.
Of course we all know that time is short, but when you sit down and work through the numbers, there really aren't that many free hours in a week. Everyone is different, but I would imagine a typical working person with a commute has maybe 2 or 3 free hours in the evening on work days, maybe 10-12 on the weekend. So maybe 20-30 hours available during the week for personal projects and activities.
Borrowing an example from the world of books, a typical novel takes me 10-15 hours to read. If I read for an hour a day (7 hours a week, or 23-35% of the theoretical 20-30 hours), it takes almost two weeks to finish a novel. If I had four novels on my AutoFocus list, and I read them when they stood out or when the time was right, it would take eight weeks to finish them. If I took a "little and often" approach and read four novels for 20 minutes at a time, then it would take 24 weeks, or almost half a year. To me that is way too slow, and really runs the risk that I'm just going to get bored or lose interest in some of them partway along. I'd rather just take one novel and plough through it for an hour a day for two weeks until it is finished.
In fact my experience putting books in AutoFocus 1 (still my favourite TM system, BTW!) was that I ended up with 8-10 titles and didn't make much progress on any of them. Eventually I realized AutoFocus wasn't suited to managing a book list, and so I decided to just set aside an hour a day to read one book at a time until it was done.
If you think of reading a novel as a "project" comparable to the other projects on your AutoFocus list, then you can see how even just having a list of 20 or 30 items is going to dilute your attention and energy so much that you really aren't going to make meaningful progress anywhere. With 20-30 available hours, you've got no more than an hour available for each task. But I would wager that an hour or two a week is not going to lead to any meaningful progress, and that it would be better to narrow the 30 items down to say 3 or 4 items, and then work 5-10 hours per week on those 3-4 items.
December 18, 2014 at 21:17 |
Simon
Simon
To Simon:
Thanks for sharing.
My experience with reading books (especially from self help category) is that I rarely finish any of them, because I used to choose 2 or 3 to read in the same time, everyone with his own approach, suggesting his own exercises, reflection,...after a while, I feel overwhelmed and just forget about them.
Meanwhile, I noticed the most useful for me is the books with short chapters, preferably without a link to each other , you could read a chapter today, jump to another one another day without following strictly the structure of the book ( they call them ADD freindly books, and though I am not ADD, I found this structure very useful).
What I find hard is focusing on 1 book only. I feel like urged to consult another one, and after that another one...
Thanks for sharing.
My experience with reading books (especially from self help category) is that I rarely finish any of them, because I used to choose 2 or 3 to read in the same time, everyone with his own approach, suggesting his own exercises, reflection,...after a while, I feel overwhelmed and just forget about them.
Meanwhile, I noticed the most useful for me is the books with short chapters, preferably without a link to each other , you could read a chapter today, jump to another one another day without following strictly the structure of the book ( they call them ADD freindly books, and though I am not ADD, I found this structure very useful).
What I find hard is focusing on 1 book only. I feel like urged to consult another one, and after that another one...
December 19, 2014 at 10:16 |
Abderrafie
Abderrafie
Simon:
<< an issue that has bothered me for a while about list-based time management systems -- there are only so many hours in the week >>
This is of course not just a problem with list-based time management systems. It is a problem with life itself!
<< In fact my experience putting books in AutoFocus 1 (still my favourite TM system, BTW!) was that I ended up with 8-10 titles and didn't make much progress on any of them. >>
I did try an experiment in which I put around 40 books on my Autofocus 1 list. If you search you might be able to find my post on the subject. The system dismissed nearly all of them very quickly (within a day I think) leaving me with a couple or so to read.
[Afternote: Found it! It was 57 books and I was left with 5. http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2008/12/23/autofocus-the-book-selection.html ]
Another experiment I did was to read "War and Peace" using one of the Autofocus systems (can't remember which one). I succeeded without any problem.
[Afternote: It was SuperFocus 3. See http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2011/2/9/handling-various-tasks-in-superfocus.html ]
I think a lot of the trouble people have had with AF in its various incarnations is that they see the "dismissal" process as a punishment for not doing everything. What it's in fact supposed to be is a way of narrowing one's focus to what one can handle what is really important without neglecting the smaller essential maintenance tasks (hence the name Autofocus).
<< it would be better to narrow the 30 items down to say 3 or 4 items, and then work 5-10 hours per week on those 3-4 items. >>
If you were going to work on only 3 or 4 items a week, those would presumably be major projects. AF though is designed to deal with tasks of all sizes. If I had 30 or 40 tasks on my list, at least 20 of those would only take minutes to complete.
If you are dealing with nothing but 3 or 4 major projects, what are you going to do about the small trivial but necessary tasks that are part of everyone's life? Have a separate list for them? In that case you are right back to having a long list of stuff.
<< an issue that has bothered me for a while about list-based time management systems -- there are only so many hours in the week >>
This is of course not just a problem with list-based time management systems. It is a problem with life itself!
<< In fact my experience putting books in AutoFocus 1 (still my favourite TM system, BTW!) was that I ended up with 8-10 titles and didn't make much progress on any of them. >>
I did try an experiment in which I put around 40 books on my Autofocus 1 list. If you search you might be able to find my post on the subject. The system dismissed nearly all of them very quickly (within a day I think) leaving me with a couple or so to read.
[Afternote: Found it! It was 57 books and I was left with 5. http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2008/12/23/autofocus-the-book-selection.html ]
Another experiment I did was to read "War and Peace" using one of the Autofocus systems (can't remember which one). I succeeded without any problem.
[Afternote: It was SuperFocus 3. See http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2011/2/9/handling-various-tasks-in-superfocus.html ]
I think a lot of the trouble people have had with AF in its various incarnations is that they see the "dismissal" process as a punishment for not doing everything. What it's in fact supposed to be is a way of narrowing one's focus to what one can handle what is really important without neglecting the smaller essential maintenance tasks (hence the name Autofocus).
<< it would be better to narrow the 30 items down to say 3 or 4 items, and then work 5-10 hours per week on those 3-4 items. >>
If you were going to work on only 3 or 4 items a week, those would presumably be major projects. AF though is designed to deal with tasks of all sizes. If I had 30 or 40 tasks on my list, at least 20 of those would only take minutes to complete.
If you are dealing with nothing but 3 or 4 major projects, what are you going to do about the small trivial but necessary tasks that are part of everyone's life? Have a separate list for them? In that case you are right back to having a long list of stuff.
December 19, 2014 at 10:31 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Seraphim, I wrote a long response and apparently didn't enter the captcha and it's gone. Aghghg!
Anyway, I really liked Francis's new book for three reasons: 1) it helped me understand and evaluate how I'm doing on a variety of task management behaviors and even helped me understand why I started having problems with it in the first place; 2) while there is little productivity research, he covers what there is and helps us apply it; 3) Francis is a really likable guy and that comes through the book for me, but I have gotten to know him.
Like every productivity book, it doesn't offer a completely new approach. Rather, it gives us a framework for understanding how we are doing with respect to ANY productivity approach. For example, I thought I had collecting my tasks down. I put my tasks into ToDoist to action. But after reading Francis's book, I realized that I don't add my Facebook message-related tasks, my text messages, or my phone messages. As a result, I forget to do them every time. After reading, I was determined not to let that go on. And that wasn't the only discovery I made about how I can improve. I loved it. Maybe Daneb didn't, so you should get his perspective, too.
Anyway, I really liked Francis's new book for three reasons: 1) it helped me understand and evaluate how I'm doing on a variety of task management behaviors and even helped me understand why I started having problems with it in the first place; 2) while there is little productivity research, he covers what there is and helps us apply it; 3) Francis is a really likable guy and that comes through the book for me, but I have gotten to know him.
Like every productivity book, it doesn't offer a completely new approach. Rather, it gives us a framework for understanding how we are doing with respect to ANY productivity approach. For example, I thought I had collecting my tasks down. I put my tasks into ToDoist to action. But after reading Francis's book, I realized that I don't add my Facebook message-related tasks, my text messages, or my phone messages. As a result, I forget to do them every time. After reading, I was determined not to let that go on. And that wasn't the only discovery I made about how I can improve. I loved it. Maybe Daneb didn't, so you should get his perspective, too.
December 20, 2014 at 0:27 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
Hi Mark, I'm a big fan of your original AutoFocus system and I have returned to it many times over the years. In fact I just started a new list a few days ago. I am also guilty of being afraid of dismissal, fearing that some great idea or activity is going to be lost and forgotten. As a result, my AF lists tend to balloon to 80+ items after a week or two.
Recently I came to realize that even if I had a perfect technique for processing this list of 80 items, it would be impossible to make meaningful progress on any of them. For example, if I were able to overcome procrastination and worked on every item sequentially for 15 minutes before moving to the next, it would take 20 hours to work through all 80 items in a week. Or, a list of 40 items, working 30 minutes at a time on each task, would also take 20 hours. That's 2 hours a work night, and 5 hours on each day of the weekend.
The other realization is that it takes many hours of work on a single goal to begin to accomplish something meaningful. A single project that requires 80 hours of work results in a more meaningful and durable outcome than 1 hour put into 80 little projects.
So my problem with list-based systems is that they shift focus toward making incremental progress (measured in minutes per week) on many small activities, and away from making meaningful, long-term progress on a few core projects.
On the reading front, I originally kept a few books in my AutoFocus list, and although I initially found it very appealing to slice off 20 minutes here and 40 minutes there, it ended up being too difficult to make meaningful progress on those books because my time was just spread around between too many activities. A few years ago I just started dedicating an hour a day to reading. If I miss a day then I have to read two hours the next day. Since then I have spent 740 hours reading 45 books, and the hour-a-day habit has become a permanent, ingrained ritual.
It strikes me that the same technique should be applied to other areas as well. So what happens to the AutoFocus list? Maybe projects stay out of it entirely and it is used to handle the mundane and trivial tasks of life. Or maybe it just needs an aggressive dismissal system. I've been thinking maybe of just automatically deleting anything more than 4 or 5 days old, with the thinking that a serious and current activity should be worked on at least once every few days.
Recently I came to realize that even if I had a perfect technique for processing this list of 80 items, it would be impossible to make meaningful progress on any of them. For example, if I were able to overcome procrastination and worked on every item sequentially for 15 minutes before moving to the next, it would take 20 hours to work through all 80 items in a week. Or, a list of 40 items, working 30 minutes at a time on each task, would also take 20 hours. That's 2 hours a work night, and 5 hours on each day of the weekend.
The other realization is that it takes many hours of work on a single goal to begin to accomplish something meaningful. A single project that requires 80 hours of work results in a more meaningful and durable outcome than 1 hour put into 80 little projects.
So my problem with list-based systems is that they shift focus toward making incremental progress (measured in minutes per week) on many small activities, and away from making meaningful, long-term progress on a few core projects.
On the reading front, I originally kept a few books in my AutoFocus list, and although I initially found it very appealing to slice off 20 minutes here and 40 minutes there, it ended up being too difficult to make meaningful progress on those books because my time was just spread around between too many activities. A few years ago I just started dedicating an hour a day to reading. If I miss a day then I have to read two hours the next day. Since then I have spent 740 hours reading 45 books, and the hour-a-day habit has become a permanent, ingrained ritual.
It strikes me that the same technique should be applied to other areas as well. So what happens to the AutoFocus list? Maybe projects stay out of it entirely and it is used to handle the mundane and trivial tasks of life. Or maybe it just needs an aggressive dismissal system. I've been thinking maybe of just automatically deleting anything more than 4 or 5 days old, with the thinking that a serious and current activity should be worked on at least once every few days.
December 20, 2014 at 2:11 |
Simon
Simon
Simon, enjoyed your post about AF1. This guy dismisses his back of every week. What do you think? http://www.eod.com/blog/2006/05/the-backlogged-life/
December 20, 2014 at 3:13 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
Melanie - Glad to read your review! It sounds like the new book has a lot more meat than his first one. I downloaded the sample to my Kindle app and will take a look! Thanks!!
December 20, 2014 at 6:11 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
<<Maybe Daneb didn't, so you should get his perspective, too.>>
Just for clarification - I spoke about Wade`s book Bill`s Im perfect. I did not want to say that the book was not good. Just that I did not find there anything new what I would not read about in several TM classics (Covey, Allen, Forster, Lakein etc) . For somebody who did not read them, this book can be interesting and valuable, of course. I liked the form of the book much but I did not found new (inspiring) content.
However, I did not read his later book (Perfect Time-based productivity) which is reviewed by Melanie. I will look at it.
Just for clarification - I spoke about Wade`s book Bill`s Im perfect. I did not want to say that the book was not good. Just that I did not find there anything new what I would not read about in several TM classics (Covey, Allen, Forster, Lakein etc) . For somebody who did not read them, this book can be interesting and valuable, of course. I liked the form of the book much but I did not found new (inspiring) content.
However, I did not read his later book (Perfect Time-based productivity) which is reviewed by Melanie. I will look at it.
December 20, 2014 at 11:40 |
Daneb
Daneb
Simon:
<< I am also guilty of being afraid of dismissal, fearing that some great idea or activity is going to be lost and forgotten. >>
Whereas with your suggested narrowed list of 3 or 4 items you can be absolutely sure that some great ideas and activities are going to be lost and forgotten.
<< As a result, my AF lists tend to balloon to 80+ items after a week or two >>
That's about the size my AF1 list normally stabilizes at. I find that's about right.
<< Recently I came to realize that even if I had a perfect technique for processing this list of 80 items, it would be impossible to make meaningful progress on any of them. >>
Why would it be impossible to make meaningful progress on any of them? To take an extreme example, if you worked all the time on one project out of the 80 you would make considerable progress on it. You wouldn't make any progress on the other 79, but that's life.
If you have 80 items on your AF list what should happen is that you work a lot on some of them, a little on some of them, and nothing at all on others. Some projects prosper, some keep going slowly and some die. That's how it's supposed to work. Natural selection. Survival of the fittest. All that sort of stuff.
<< For example, if I were able to overcome procrastination and worked on every item sequentially for 15 minutes before moving to the next, it would take 20 hours to work through all 80 items in a week. >>
Yes, but the whole point of AF is that you don't do that. You don't want to work the same amount of time on every task/project. You want to see which ones get your interest and enthusiasm and run with them. The others get selected out.
<< The other realization is that it takes many hours of work on a single goal to begin to accomplish something meaningful. A single project that requires 80 hours of work results in a more meaningful and durable outcome than 1 hour put into 80 little projects. >>
That's why AF gets you working on a few projects while the others get left behind and eventually sifted out..
<< So my problem with list-based systems is that they shift focus toward making incremental progress (measured in minutes per week) on many small activities, and away from making meaningful, long-term progress on a few core projects. >>
Spending equal time on a whole raft of small projects is exactly what AF is designed not to do. It's intended to get you to spend unequal time on them.
<< On the reading front, I originally kept a few books in my AutoFocus list, and although I initially found it very appealing to slice off 20 minutes here and 40 minutes there, it ended up being too difficult to make meaningful progress on those books because my time was just spread around between too many activities. A few years ago I just started dedicating an hour a day to reading. If I miss a day then I have to read two hours the next day. Since then I have spent 740 hours reading 45 books, and the hour-a-day habit has become a permanent, ingrained ritual. >>
That's a very good approach for reading or anything else that you want to work on in a sustained regular way (e.g. study, practising a musical instrument, physical fitness). However my experience is that it's practically impossible to maintain more than three blocks of time like this unless you are in an artificial environment like a school, where you have nothing else impinging on what you are doing.
<< It strikes me that the same technique should be applied to other areas as well. So what happens to the AutoFocus list? Maybe projects stay out of it entirely and it is used to handle the mundane and trivial tasks of life. Or maybe it just needs an aggressive dismissal system. I've been thinking maybe of just automatically deleting anything more than 4 or 5 days old, with the thinking that a serious and current activity should be worked on at least once every few days. >>
4 or 5 days is just about where dismissal takes place in my AF list anyway.
<< I am also guilty of being afraid of dismissal, fearing that some great idea or activity is going to be lost and forgotten. >>
Whereas with your suggested narrowed list of 3 or 4 items you can be absolutely sure that some great ideas and activities are going to be lost and forgotten.
<< As a result, my AF lists tend to balloon to 80+ items after a week or two >>
That's about the size my AF1 list normally stabilizes at. I find that's about right.
<< Recently I came to realize that even if I had a perfect technique for processing this list of 80 items, it would be impossible to make meaningful progress on any of them. >>
Why would it be impossible to make meaningful progress on any of them? To take an extreme example, if you worked all the time on one project out of the 80 you would make considerable progress on it. You wouldn't make any progress on the other 79, but that's life.
If you have 80 items on your AF list what should happen is that you work a lot on some of them, a little on some of them, and nothing at all on others. Some projects prosper, some keep going slowly and some die. That's how it's supposed to work. Natural selection. Survival of the fittest. All that sort of stuff.
<< For example, if I were able to overcome procrastination and worked on every item sequentially for 15 minutes before moving to the next, it would take 20 hours to work through all 80 items in a week. >>
Yes, but the whole point of AF is that you don't do that. You don't want to work the same amount of time on every task/project. You want to see which ones get your interest and enthusiasm and run with them. The others get selected out.
<< The other realization is that it takes many hours of work on a single goal to begin to accomplish something meaningful. A single project that requires 80 hours of work results in a more meaningful and durable outcome than 1 hour put into 80 little projects. >>
That's why AF gets you working on a few projects while the others get left behind and eventually sifted out..
<< So my problem with list-based systems is that they shift focus toward making incremental progress (measured in minutes per week) on many small activities, and away from making meaningful, long-term progress on a few core projects. >>
Spending equal time on a whole raft of small projects is exactly what AF is designed not to do. It's intended to get you to spend unequal time on them.
<< On the reading front, I originally kept a few books in my AutoFocus list, and although I initially found it very appealing to slice off 20 minutes here and 40 minutes there, it ended up being too difficult to make meaningful progress on those books because my time was just spread around between too many activities. A few years ago I just started dedicating an hour a day to reading. If I miss a day then I have to read two hours the next day. Since then I have spent 740 hours reading 45 books, and the hour-a-day habit has become a permanent, ingrained ritual. >>
That's a very good approach for reading or anything else that you want to work on in a sustained regular way (e.g. study, practising a musical instrument, physical fitness). However my experience is that it's practically impossible to maintain more than three blocks of time like this unless you are in an artificial environment like a school, where you have nothing else impinging on what you are doing.
<< It strikes me that the same technique should be applied to other areas as well. So what happens to the AutoFocus list? Maybe projects stay out of it entirely and it is used to handle the mundane and trivial tasks of life. Or maybe it just needs an aggressive dismissal system. I've been thinking maybe of just automatically deleting anything more than 4 or 5 days old, with the thinking that a serious and current activity should be worked on at least once every few days. >>
4 or 5 days is just about where dismissal takes place in my AF list anyway.
December 20, 2014 at 13:53 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark, thanks for clarifying the purpose of AF1. I had started thinking like Simon about it. Would you say that AF1 and following is designed for people who have a hard time deciding how to spend their time? Lately I have been making the decisions upfront and I find I like that better. With an AF list, I kept thinking that I could get more done than I actually could or should. I will say that AF is more fun than my current method of scheduling loosely via Timeful. However, I am flexible and used random selection to action tasks the other day. I liked it because I needed the break.
December 20, 2014 at 14:39 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
Melanie:
<< Would you say that AF1 and following is designed for people who have a hard time deciding how to spend their time? >>
I invented AF1 mainly because it was becoming obvious to me through the comments on this forum and elsewhere that people were ignoring the bit in Do It Tomorrow about auditing their commitments if they got behind. They were still trying to do everything.
So I wanted to design a system which would do it for them automatically. Here's an extract from the original instructions ( http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2009/1/6/autofocus-system-instructions.html ):
Why it works
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The system works by providing a framework which balances the rational and intuitive parts of the brain.
If we try to run our lives with our rational brain only, we will tend to make plans which are subverted by our own minds because our minds don’t work on purely rational grounds. Most of us have experienced occasions on which we know (with our rational brain) that we would be better served to do certain things, but nevertheless our natural inclination is to reject them.
On the other hand, if we try to run our lives by following our natural inclinations only we will have a strong tendency to drift, become impulsive and act irrationally.
However when these two ways of thinking are in balance we are able to make rational decisions which are fully in accord with our deeper feelings and emotions. The Autofocus system provides a framework which enables this. Although I talk about “the system” making the choices, what I really mean is that the system provides a framework which allows us to make these balanced decisions ourselves in a non-stressful way.
-------------------------------
<< Would you say that AF1 and following is designed for people who have a hard time deciding how to spend their time? >>
I invented AF1 mainly because it was becoming obvious to me through the comments on this forum and elsewhere that people were ignoring the bit in Do It Tomorrow about auditing their commitments if they got behind. They were still trying to do everything.
So I wanted to design a system which would do it for them automatically. Here's an extract from the original instructions ( http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2009/1/6/autofocus-system-instructions.html ):
Why it works
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The system works by providing a framework which balances the rational and intuitive parts of the brain.
If we try to run our lives with our rational brain only, we will tend to make plans which are subverted by our own minds because our minds don’t work on purely rational grounds. Most of us have experienced occasions on which we know (with our rational brain) that we would be better served to do certain things, but nevertheless our natural inclination is to reject them.
On the other hand, if we try to run our lives by following our natural inclinations only we will have a strong tendency to drift, become impulsive and act irrationally.
However when these two ways of thinking are in balance we are able to make rational decisions which are fully in accord with our deeper feelings and emotions. The Autofocus system provides a framework which enables this. Although I talk about “the system” making the choices, what I really mean is that the system provides a framework which allows us to make these balanced decisions ourselves in a non-stressful way.
-------------------------------
December 20, 2014 at 15:34 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Melanie:
Another quote from the original instructions:
" DO expect things to move at different rates. Some things will move fast, some slowly, some will stop for a period, and some will be rejected altogether. This is how it’s supposed to work. "
Another quote from the original instructions:
" DO expect things to move at different rates. Some things will move fast, some slowly, some will stop for a period, and some will be rejected altogether. This is how it’s supposed to work. "
December 20, 2014 at 15:36 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
And another extract:
What can you expect from the system?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is based purely on my own experience of working the system for a number of weeks, but what I have found is as follows:
A greatly increased volume of work. I have found that I am able to process work much faster. This seems to be mainly due to the fact that there is very little friction in the way of resistance or procrastination.
A lack of stress. Although obviously one still has to do the work, there are no great barriers of resistance to overcome or feelings of overwhelm. In fact just about all my work has become pleasurable. The more I’ve learned to trust the system, the more this has been the case.
Focus on what is important. It’s very difficult to focus on what is important with one’s rational mind alone, because what your conscious mind thinks is important may not be what your subconscious mind thinks is important. What I’ve found is that looking back on what I’ve done I can see that the focus produced by the system feels “right” - right for me in my current circumstances.
Very fast processing of routine actions. My speed at doing various essential routine tasks has increased exponentially. The sort of things I am thinking of are replying to emails, answering comments on my blog, returning phone calls, etc. etc.
Thorough processing of major tasks and projects. The system encourages a “little and often” approach to major tasks. The result is that a project, such as setting up this trial, can be dealt with over a period of time in a very methodical way. One other result of the “little and often” approach is that ideas and insights naturally spring up as a result of one’s mind engaging with the task over a period of time.
What can you expect from the system?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is based purely on my own experience of working the system for a number of weeks, but what I have found is as follows:
A greatly increased volume of work. I have found that I am able to process work much faster. This seems to be mainly due to the fact that there is very little friction in the way of resistance or procrastination.
A lack of stress. Although obviously one still has to do the work, there are no great barriers of resistance to overcome or feelings of overwhelm. In fact just about all my work has become pleasurable. The more I’ve learned to trust the system, the more this has been the case.
Focus on what is important. It’s very difficult to focus on what is important with one’s rational mind alone, because what your conscious mind thinks is important may not be what your subconscious mind thinks is important. What I’ve found is that looking back on what I’ve done I can see that the focus produced by the system feels “right” - right for me in my current circumstances.
Very fast processing of routine actions. My speed at doing various essential routine tasks has increased exponentially. The sort of things I am thinking of are replying to emails, answering comments on my blog, returning phone calls, etc. etc.
Thorough processing of major tasks and projects. The system encourages a “little and often” approach to major tasks. The result is that a project, such as setting up this trial, can be dealt with over a period of time in a very methodical way. One other result of the “little and often” approach is that ideas and insights naturally spring up as a result of one’s mind engaging with the task over a period of time.
December 20, 2014 at 15:44 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark: Timely reminders. In my head I shall call AF "AutoBalance" (between rational and intuitive choice).
December 20, 2014 at 16:45 |
michael
michael
Good memories from the early days of AutoFocus. I used it heavily in the spring of 2009 and still come back to it regularly.
Just to be a bit of a wet blanket -- one thing I also remember from that time is making it about 20 or 30 pages into about 6 different books and not finishing any of them. Also, I remember being on top of things like "call Bob", "change cat litter", "buy lightbulbs", but looking back I can't remember a single enduring thing I accomplished during that time. I was just very busy dealing with lots of little 10-minute activities that have since been lost in the sands of time.
Meanwhile, projects you can look back on and be proud of are going to take a few hundred hours of work or more, and they are going to require hard work at times when you really aren't in the mood for them. For me, that's where a list-based system falls short, because the list is not going to provide any incentive to work on something difficult. Little and often, although a great idea, encourages you to walk away at the first sign of trouble and reward yourself for giving up with a fun activity from your list. Whereas if you set aside 30-60 minutes a day for one or two key projects, and work at them every day for many months, the 30-60 minute time box is going to force you to push ahead through the difficult parts, and working every day will keep the momentum up and your mind focused on the project.
That being said, I think AutoFocus is a great system. In fact, I'm using it today and I'm looking forward to it. I like the idea Melanie linked to of dismissing the entire backlog every week. Just now I drew a line through everything on my AF list more than a week old. Didn't even look at what was being crossed out. If it was important, it will bubble to the surface again.
Just to be a bit of a wet blanket -- one thing I also remember from that time is making it about 20 or 30 pages into about 6 different books and not finishing any of them. Also, I remember being on top of things like "call Bob", "change cat litter", "buy lightbulbs", but looking back I can't remember a single enduring thing I accomplished during that time. I was just very busy dealing with lots of little 10-minute activities that have since been lost in the sands of time.
Meanwhile, projects you can look back on and be proud of are going to take a few hundred hours of work or more, and they are going to require hard work at times when you really aren't in the mood for them. For me, that's where a list-based system falls short, because the list is not going to provide any incentive to work on something difficult. Little and often, although a great idea, encourages you to walk away at the first sign of trouble and reward yourself for giving up with a fun activity from your list. Whereas if you set aside 30-60 minutes a day for one or two key projects, and work at them every day for many months, the 30-60 minute time box is going to force you to push ahead through the difficult parts, and working every day will keep the momentum up and your mind focused on the project.
That being said, I think AutoFocus is a great system. In fact, I'm using it today and I'm looking forward to it. I like the idea Melanie linked to of dismissing the entire backlog every week. Just now I drew a line through everything on my AF list more than a week old. Didn't even look at what was being crossed out. If it was important, it will bubble to the surface again.
December 20, 2014 at 17:52 |
Simon
Simon
Simon:
That's very different from my own experience. I remember it as a very productive time, in which the small things in my life were all working like clockwork as well. It was also a time in which the whole of my work seemed to flow, not just parts of it.
It's difficult to do a postmortem on something that happened over five years ago, but I'll try to make a few comments.
<< looking back I can't remember a single enduring thing I accomplished during that time >>
Can you remember the enduring things you accomplished in Winter 2008 or Summer 2009?
<< For me, that's where a list-based system falls short, because the list is not going to provide any incentive to work on something difficult. >>
The AF list does provide incentive in that if you don't work on something it is likely to get dismissed. But it's main motive power is by reducing resistance to the more difficult work.
<< Little and often, although a great idea, encourages you to walk away at the first sign of trouble and reward yourself for giving up with a fun activity from your list. >>
That's not how little and often works. The aim of little and often is to reduce resistance to more difficult work. Once you get something under way it develops momentum.
<< Whereas if you set aside 30-60 minutes a day for one or two key projects, and work at them every day for many months, the 30-60 minute time box is going to force you to push ahead through the difficult parts, and working every day will keep the momentum up and your mind focused on the project. >>
Working 30-60 minutes a day on a project IS working "little and often". It's exactly what "little and often" is about.
AF is designed to ease you into this. Just having a 30-60 minute time-box doesn't provide you with any incentive. In fact it's only too easy to spend a good deal of the time fiddling around and achieving very little.
<< Just now I drew a line through everything on my AF list more than a week old. >>
Normally I would have expected nothing to be left on my list after a week anyway. As I said in my earlier posting, I find that dismissal kicks in around the 4 to 5 day mark.
That's very different from my own experience. I remember it as a very productive time, in which the small things in my life were all working like clockwork as well. It was also a time in which the whole of my work seemed to flow, not just parts of it.
It's difficult to do a postmortem on something that happened over five years ago, but I'll try to make a few comments.
<< looking back I can't remember a single enduring thing I accomplished during that time >>
Can you remember the enduring things you accomplished in Winter 2008 or Summer 2009?
<< For me, that's where a list-based system falls short, because the list is not going to provide any incentive to work on something difficult. >>
The AF list does provide incentive in that if you don't work on something it is likely to get dismissed. But it's main motive power is by reducing resistance to the more difficult work.
<< Little and often, although a great idea, encourages you to walk away at the first sign of trouble and reward yourself for giving up with a fun activity from your list. >>
That's not how little and often works. The aim of little and often is to reduce resistance to more difficult work. Once you get something under way it develops momentum.
<< Whereas if you set aside 30-60 minutes a day for one or two key projects, and work at them every day for many months, the 30-60 minute time box is going to force you to push ahead through the difficult parts, and working every day will keep the momentum up and your mind focused on the project. >>
Working 30-60 minutes a day on a project IS working "little and often". It's exactly what "little and often" is about.
AF is designed to ease you into this. Just having a 30-60 minute time-box doesn't provide you with any incentive. In fact it's only too easy to spend a good deal of the time fiddling around and achieving very little.
<< Just now I drew a line through everything on my AF list more than a week old. >>
Normally I would have expected nothing to be left on my list after a week anyway. As I said in my earlier posting, I find that dismissal kicks in around the 4 to 5 day mark.
December 20, 2014 at 18:48 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark: Thanks for the reminders of the original intent. It's been a long time since I tried AF. It's possible it would work much better for me now that a) I wouldn't write down every potential task or idea, but only those things I would like to work on in the next week and b) I'm
not as freaked out by dismissal. I felt like dismissal was a failure instead of a wise subconscious saying don't do this.
The one thing that I love about this kind of approach is it got me to do things I put off and it gave me an early start on things I would ordinarily procrastinate on. Having done the random selection a few times, do you think that randomizing is even more addictive? You keep hoping for a certain task to come up, so you keep playing?
not as freaked out by dismissal. I felt like dismissal was a failure instead of a wise subconscious saying don't do this.
The one thing that I love about this kind of approach is it got me to do things I put off and it gave me an early start on things I would ordinarily procrastinate on. Having done the random selection a few times, do you think that randomizing is even more addictive? You keep hoping for a certain task to come up, so you keep playing?
December 21, 2014 at 20:22 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
Melanie:
I very much liked the random method. But I had two problems with it:
1) There is no control over when you do a task. It may happen immediately or it may be several days down the line. This doesn't matter with many tasks, but it does matter with some.
2) It isn't suitable for any task you want to work on regularly. You might find yourself doing it two or three times in one day and then not doing it again for a matter of days.
But I did really enjoy the lack of resistance and the mild form of gambling addiction!
I very much liked the random method. But I had two problems with it:
1) There is no control over when you do a task. It may happen immediately or it may be several days down the line. This doesn't matter with many tasks, but it does matter with some.
2) It isn't suitable for any task you want to work on regularly. You might find yourself doing it two or three times in one day and then not doing it again for a matter of days.
But I did really enjoy the lack of resistance and the mild form of gambling addiction!
December 22, 2014 at 0:05 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark, both good points. I have high resistance today. I'm supposed to have Sundays off, but had a party to prepare for and a super busy holiday week. I have been using the randomizer just on today's tasks and I got my food made early and didn't just nap which is what I really wanted to do. Now I'm going to give it another go, when otherwise I would just be vegetating.
December 22, 2014 at 1:26 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
I'm getting inspired by the idea of AutoFocus with automatic dismissal of tasks more than a week old. It seems like a good way to naturally create a list with about a week of work. If you take on too much work and start falling behind, the unactioned tasks will fall off after a week and the list will become shorter and more manageable.
Today I have about a dozen open tasks from a week ago, and because they will all be dismissed tomorrow, I do feel motivated to get to at least a few of them today. It is similar to the feeling of motivation from the day-week-month system. I don't mind if some of the others disappear because the overall list will be shorter and more manageable.
Also, thinking over the debate about whether AutoFocus is suitable for larger projects, I realize that sometimes there just aren't any big projects you feel that strongly about. In these situations, AutoFocus works well to sift through several ideas and see what sticks.
On a somewhat related note, although I loved using random tasks selection, I wonder if it defeats the benefit of a system like AutoFocus to filter your task list? With random selection, you come back to the problem of 15 minutes per day x 80 tasks = 20 hours per week not making much progress in any area.
Today I have about a dozen open tasks from a week ago, and because they will all be dismissed tomorrow, I do feel motivated to get to at least a few of them today. It is similar to the feeling of motivation from the day-week-month system. I don't mind if some of the others disappear because the overall list will be shorter and more manageable.
Also, thinking over the debate about whether AutoFocus is suitable for larger projects, I realize that sometimes there just aren't any big projects you feel that strongly about. In these situations, AutoFocus works well to sift through several ideas and see what sticks.
On a somewhat related note, although I loved using random tasks selection, I wonder if it defeats the benefit of a system like AutoFocus to filter your task list? With random selection, you come back to the problem of 15 minutes per day x 80 tasks = 20 hours per week not making much progress in any area.
December 22, 2014 at 17:52 |
Simon
Simon
Hi Simon
See DSAF created by AndreasE. Each week you dismiss the old tasks from the week before, the newest being 8 days old up to 14 days old. When you dismiss them, you can rewrite the ones you want to address again the coming week. AndreasE is an international best selling author so you know that it works well for very important large projects as well as the normally occurring tasks. He doesn't have any particular algorithm to follow. He says he relies mostly on what stands out. I thinks it's a genius AF modification.
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2037791
See DSAF created by AndreasE. Each week you dismiss the old tasks from the week before, the newest being 8 days old up to 14 days old. When you dismiss them, you can rewrite the ones you want to address again the coming week. AndreasE is an international best selling author so you know that it works well for very important large projects as well as the normally occurring tasks. He doesn't have any particular algorithm to follow. He says he relies mostly on what stands out. I thinks it's a genius AF modification.
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2037791
December 22, 2014 at 20:00 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
p.s.
I pinched his idea of giving myself a bit of extra time for tying up loose ends from the week before especially if I was really jammed up that week churning out work. IOW, the dismissal process generously allows you 8-14 days to get your work done without having to review dismissed tasks as often. That can be a real Godsend when you're really cramped with lots going on. His system also handles the dismissal process very intelligently. I "sort of" use AndreasE DSAF concepts for the small but not yet important stuff. His method gives me room to focus on the crucial stuff yet also keeps me aware of the other stuff so that I can handle it before it gets prickly. LOL! With his method you can take care of what needs to be done. He keeps his focus on his important project(s) and also the normal stuff that we all must attend to.
Thanks, AndreasE!
I pinched his idea of giving myself a bit of extra time for tying up loose ends from the week before especially if I was really jammed up that week churning out work. IOW, the dismissal process generously allows you 8-14 days to get your work done without having to review dismissed tasks as often. That can be a real Godsend when you're really cramped with lots going on. His system also handles the dismissal process very intelligently. I "sort of" use AndreasE DSAF concepts for the small but not yet important stuff. His method gives me room to focus on the crucial stuff yet also keeps me aware of the other stuff so that I can handle it before it gets prickly. LOL! With his method you can take care of what needs to be done. He keeps his focus on his important project(s) and also the normal stuff that we all must attend to.
Thanks, AndreasE!
December 22, 2014 at 20:11 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
Simon:
<< On a somewhat related note, although I loved using random tasks selection, I wonder if it defeats the benefit of a system like AutoFocus to filter your task list? With random selection, you come back to the problem of 15 minutes per day x 80 tasks = 20 hours per week not making much progress in any area. >>
Well, I think it's important to realize that random selection is NOT an Autofocus system. It works on entirely different principles. In AF you have continuous input in the form of "standing out", which I sometimes have to remind people is not done by "the system" but by you!
In random selection, the only input you get into the system is what you put on the list and how long you work on something once it's been selected. Everything else you have handed over to the random selector. You have to remember that the random selector couldn't care less about your desires, fears, priorities, etc.
Certain consequences follow from this:
1) Every task will get done.
2) How long it will take for any individual task to be selected from the list is out of your control.
3) The main factor in how long it will take for every task to be done is the length of the list.
4) The length of the list IS under your control, so you do have control of how long it will take for every task to get done..
My conclusion from this is that if you want random selection to work well, you need to keep the size of the list down. You can decide how long is acceptable for the "every task done" interval. Then experiment to see what the maximum number of tasks is that allows you to keep within that interval.
For example (the figures are purely illustrative):
You decide that two days is the longest time a task should remain undone. You have 100 tasks on your list and it is taking four days before all of them have been actioned. If you now do not allow more than 50 tasks on your list, the target of two days before they are all actioned will be achieved. If you only put 25 tasks on the list, you could guarantee every task would be done within 24 hours (assuming no variations in the length of time available to work on the list).
So unlike AF, you need a degree of pre-selection before putting stuff on the list. Otherwise it may be more than a week before you can guarantee that any individual task will be actioned.
<< On a somewhat related note, although I loved using random tasks selection, I wonder if it defeats the benefit of a system like AutoFocus to filter your task list? With random selection, you come back to the problem of 15 minutes per day x 80 tasks = 20 hours per week not making much progress in any area. >>
Well, I think it's important to realize that random selection is NOT an Autofocus system. It works on entirely different principles. In AF you have continuous input in the form of "standing out", which I sometimes have to remind people is not done by "the system" but by you!
In random selection, the only input you get into the system is what you put on the list and how long you work on something once it's been selected. Everything else you have handed over to the random selector. You have to remember that the random selector couldn't care less about your desires, fears, priorities, etc.
Certain consequences follow from this:
1) Every task will get done.
2) How long it will take for any individual task to be selected from the list is out of your control.
3) The main factor in how long it will take for every task to be done is the length of the list.
4) The length of the list IS under your control, so you do have control of how long it will take for every task to get done..
My conclusion from this is that if you want random selection to work well, you need to keep the size of the list down. You can decide how long is acceptable for the "every task done" interval. Then experiment to see what the maximum number of tasks is that allows you to keep within that interval.
For example (the figures are purely illustrative):
You decide that two days is the longest time a task should remain undone. You have 100 tasks on your list and it is taking four days before all of them have been actioned. If you now do not allow more than 50 tasks on your list, the target of two days before they are all actioned will be achieved. If you only put 25 tasks on the list, you could guarantee every task would be done within 24 hours (assuming no variations in the length of time available to work on the list).
So unlike AF, you need a degree of pre-selection before putting stuff on the list. Otherwise it may be more than a week before you can guarantee that any individual task will be actioned.
December 22, 2014 at 20:29 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Simon:
Pondering what I wrote in my last post, I came to the conclusion that random selection would work extremely well on a day list. You could very quickly find by trial and error how many tasks you could do in a day and make sure the list did not exceed that.
The problem with day lists without random selection is that there is a very strong in-built tendency in most people to do the easy tasks first. There's also a very strong tendency to make the list too large. The result is that not everything gets done, and the things left undone tend to be the more challenging and difficult ones.
These disadvantages disappear with random selection because the selector is totally indifferent to our feelings about a particular task. Therefore if some stuff doesn't get done, it is no more likely to be the challenging and difficult ones than any others.
I think it's also probably easier to get the right number of tasks on the list if you are using random selection. I think that taking all the psychological factors out of the selection of tasks also takes away some of the element of self-deception which goes into drawing up a day list. I'm not sure about this, so I'll have to experiment.
Pondering what I wrote in my last post, I came to the conclusion that random selection would work extremely well on a day list. You could very quickly find by trial and error how many tasks you could do in a day and make sure the list did not exceed that.
The problem with day lists without random selection is that there is a very strong in-built tendency in most people to do the easy tasks first. There's also a very strong tendency to make the list too large. The result is that not everything gets done, and the things left undone tend to be the more challenging and difficult ones.
These disadvantages disappear with random selection because the selector is totally indifferent to our feelings about a particular task. Therefore if some stuff doesn't get done, it is no more likely to be the challenging and difficult ones than any others.
I think it's also probably easier to get the right number of tasks on the list if you are using random selection. I think that taking all the psychological factors out of the selection of tasks also takes away some of the element of self-deception which goes into drawing up a day list. I'm not sure about this, so I'll have to experiment.
December 22, 2014 at 22:10 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Learning -- thanks for the link. I have been running AutoFocus for a few weeks now, and a few days ago started dismissing every task more than a week old. Not sure if it will work better to dismiss week-old tasks every day, or to wait and do them all in a batch at the end of the week. Either way, I like the way this method naturally culls the task list down to about a week of work.
Mark -- I have tried using random selection a few times, and at times I have really felt like it was "the answer" because it really breaks up limiting mental patterns and predictable routines. I always run into two problems though: (1) although some tasks are deleted immediately after actioning them, most tasks tend to spawn two or three additional tasks, and the list starts to get baggy, (2) after a few days I get excited by a few of the tasks and start to realize what it is I really want to do. Then mental pressure starts to build up when the randomizer starts choosing irrelevant tasks.
On a shorter day-length list, I still feel that mental pressure start to build up when there are a few items on the list that must be done by the end of the day, and halfway through the day they still haven't been attended to. I suppose a way around that would be to ensure you only have a day's worth of tasks on the list.
Mark -- I have tried using random selection a few times, and at times I have really felt like it was "the answer" because it really breaks up limiting mental patterns and predictable routines. I always run into two problems though: (1) although some tasks are deleted immediately after actioning them, most tasks tend to spawn two or three additional tasks, and the list starts to get baggy, (2) after a few days I get excited by a few of the tasks and start to realize what it is I really want to do. Then mental pressure starts to build up when the randomizer starts choosing irrelevant tasks.
On a shorter day-length list, I still feel that mental pressure start to build up when there are a few items on the list that must be done by the end of the day, and halfway through the day they still haven't been attended to. I suppose a way around that would be to ensure you only have a day's worth of tasks on the list.
December 24, 2014 at 4:51 |
Simon
Simon
Hi Simon
I, too, seem to work best with an orientation of a week's overview. Sometimes, life gets challenging and hectic and I'd feel guilty if I didn't take the time to properly file, collate notes, etc from a big project, etc......until I read AndreasE's DSAF. Why wasn't I intelligent enough to realize that there's no sense in feeling guilty if I was doing the most important stuff? DSAF takes care of that for me. I'd even feel guilty if I got behind because of surgeries! Somehow, when I read his instructions, I saw a more intelligent and rational perspective. Thanks, AndreasE.
I don't always need the extra week to "clean up and tie up loose ends" but, psychologically, it does help me. I've not only learned principles from Mark and the regular posters. I've also learned to adapt a better perspective on how to view my work and my efforts. I'm glad that you're showing success in building a system that aids you to accomplish whatever you're aiming for.
re: randomization
I cull my daily MITs (Will do list) from my weekly MITs and add whatever else I want to keep in mind to think about and/or do around completing my day's MITs. I won't pretty it up. Sometimes my illogical attitude is a liability. If there's one task/job that I'm dreading, I'll make up a short list. Then I'll use randomization. When I'm avoiding something really important, I'll use color coding to augment the randomization. 40% chance of having to do the one that I dread, 30% chance of doing another MIT and 30% chance of choosing worthy work whether it's an MIT or not. I don't include fun stuff on my lists. Instead, I have distinct breaks. Because it's a Will Do list, I don't have to fret about getting it done. My only worry is when my brain or body rebels against my higher intentions. LOL! Randomization removes the stress of knowingly choosing dread "right NOW" LOL! I can live with a 40% chance of choosing the dreaded task. Many times, that's all I need to break through the "attitude barrier". Other times, I need to hit it a few times until I get sufficiently engaged. I liken it to pulling the string to start a lawnmower. I don't feel guilty if it takes a few tugs to start the mower. My attitude is a bit like that sometimes. LOL!
Confession: I don't particularly enjoy meeting some of my responsibilities but I have to do them so what the hell? I may as well do them in a timely manner. I doesn't hurt me any worse. LOL! Randomization is a temporary tool to get me engaged...like the lawnmower motor. LOL! Once my brain is gear, knocking out the work is infinitely easier than getting started.
Confession: Sometimes getting started is the most challenging aspect of getting my work done. Having a Will Do list and various coping strategies is a winning combo for me. Each daily win adds up to keeping my reputation and lifestyle intact overall.
I wish I had the sort of brain that could work off a master list but I don't. I'm useless without an overview what I've decided to do to make this a good day. That sense of accomplishment and focus helps me to boost my confidence and overall faith in myself to face whatever is happening. I know when I'm well-intentioned and when I'm just dicking around. I also know when I've been accidentally distracted. These principles and various tricks and coping strategies helps me to ditch the crappy attitude or redirect my attention to get back on track. I can't tell you how much I've learned here. Lots of what I've learned is also how to manipulate my mind. LOL!
We all figure out how to meet our aims somehow. This site offers us a chance to discover what's more in alignment with our natural thinking and action styles. I hope your method brings you success.
I, too, seem to work best with an orientation of a week's overview. Sometimes, life gets challenging and hectic and I'd feel guilty if I didn't take the time to properly file, collate notes, etc from a big project, etc......until I read AndreasE's DSAF. Why wasn't I intelligent enough to realize that there's no sense in feeling guilty if I was doing the most important stuff? DSAF takes care of that for me. I'd even feel guilty if I got behind because of surgeries! Somehow, when I read his instructions, I saw a more intelligent and rational perspective. Thanks, AndreasE.
I don't always need the extra week to "clean up and tie up loose ends" but, psychologically, it does help me. I've not only learned principles from Mark and the regular posters. I've also learned to adapt a better perspective on how to view my work and my efforts. I'm glad that you're showing success in building a system that aids you to accomplish whatever you're aiming for.
re: randomization
I cull my daily MITs (Will do list) from my weekly MITs and add whatever else I want to keep in mind to think about and/or do around completing my day's MITs. I won't pretty it up. Sometimes my illogical attitude is a liability. If there's one task/job that I'm dreading, I'll make up a short list. Then I'll use randomization. When I'm avoiding something really important, I'll use color coding to augment the randomization. 40% chance of having to do the one that I dread, 30% chance of doing another MIT and 30% chance of choosing worthy work whether it's an MIT or not. I don't include fun stuff on my lists. Instead, I have distinct breaks. Because it's a Will Do list, I don't have to fret about getting it done. My only worry is when my brain or body rebels against my higher intentions. LOL! Randomization removes the stress of knowingly choosing dread "right NOW" LOL! I can live with a 40% chance of choosing the dreaded task. Many times, that's all I need to break through the "attitude barrier". Other times, I need to hit it a few times until I get sufficiently engaged. I liken it to pulling the string to start a lawnmower. I don't feel guilty if it takes a few tugs to start the mower. My attitude is a bit like that sometimes. LOL!
Confession: I don't particularly enjoy meeting some of my responsibilities but I have to do them so what the hell? I may as well do them in a timely manner. I doesn't hurt me any worse. LOL! Randomization is a temporary tool to get me engaged...like the lawnmower motor. LOL! Once my brain is gear, knocking out the work is infinitely easier than getting started.
Confession: Sometimes getting started is the most challenging aspect of getting my work done. Having a Will Do list and various coping strategies is a winning combo for me. Each daily win adds up to keeping my reputation and lifestyle intact overall.
I wish I had the sort of brain that could work off a master list but I don't. I'm useless without an overview what I've decided to do to make this a good day. That sense of accomplishment and focus helps me to boost my confidence and overall faith in myself to face whatever is happening. I know when I'm well-intentioned and when I'm just dicking around. I also know when I've been accidentally distracted. These principles and various tricks and coping strategies helps me to ditch the crappy attitude or redirect my attention to get back on track. I can't tell you how much I've learned here. Lots of what I've learned is also how to manipulate my mind. LOL!
We all figure out how to meet our aims somehow. This site offers us a chance to discover what's more in alignment with our natural thinking and action styles. I hope your method brings you success.
December 24, 2014 at 11:33 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
p.s.
Simon: I you don't want to read the verbose post of an addled mind, here are the salient points.
I only use the randomizer to get me started. It's far easier to just work the list when my attitude doesn't need the crutch.
When I want to narrow my focus, I'll use a sublist. A timer also helps me to ring-fence my efforts.
Simon: I you don't want to read the verbose post of an addled mind, here are the salient points.
I only use the randomizer to get me started. It's far easier to just work the list when my attitude doesn't need the crutch.
When I want to narrow my focus, I'll use a sublist. A timer also helps me to ring-fence my efforts.
December 24, 2014 at 11:41 |
learning as I go
learning as I go
Simon:
<< I have tried using random selection a few times, and at times I have really felt like it was "the answer" because it really breaks up limiting mental patterns and predictable routines. I always run into two problems though: (1) although some tasks are deleted immediately after actioning them, most tasks tend to spawn two or three additional tasks, and the list starts to get baggy, (2) after a few days I get excited by a few of the tasks and start to realize what it is I really want to do. Then mental pressure starts to build up when the randomizer starts choosing irrelevant tasks. >>
Both these problems are solved if you use a day list.
<< On a shorter day-length list, I still feel that mental pressure start to build up when there are a few items on the list that must be done by the end of the day, and halfway through the day they still haven't been attended to. I suppose a way around that would be to ensure you only have a day's worth of tasks on the list. >>
Yes, that's the idea of a day list - to only have a day's worth of tasks on the list. You need to make pretty certain that it really is only a day's work. Every task should be finished by the end of the day. If you overrun make a shorter list the following day.
I've been experimenting with this over the last few days, and I found another useful method. If you have something that you want to get out of the way early in the day, then start the day with a list containing only enough tasks to last to lunchtime. As soon as you have actioned the critical task, you can make the list long enough to last all day.
<< I have tried using random selection a few times, and at times I have really felt like it was "the answer" because it really breaks up limiting mental patterns and predictable routines. I always run into two problems though: (1) although some tasks are deleted immediately after actioning them, most tasks tend to spawn two or three additional tasks, and the list starts to get baggy, (2) after a few days I get excited by a few of the tasks and start to realize what it is I really want to do. Then mental pressure starts to build up when the randomizer starts choosing irrelevant tasks. >>
Both these problems are solved if you use a day list.
<< On a shorter day-length list, I still feel that mental pressure start to build up when there are a few items on the list that must be done by the end of the day, and halfway through the day they still haven't been attended to. I suppose a way around that would be to ensure you only have a day's worth of tasks on the list. >>
Yes, that's the idea of a day list - to only have a day's worth of tasks on the list. You need to make pretty certain that it really is only a day's work. Every task should be finished by the end of the day. If you overrun make a shorter list the following day.
I've been experimenting with this over the last few days, and I found another useful method. If you have something that you want to get out of the way early in the day, then start the day with a list containing only enough tasks to last to lunchtime. As soon as you have actioned the critical task, you can make the list long enough to last all day.
December 24, 2014 at 20:04 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Clever modifications! That's what I was doing with the randomizer--just using the day's list. It had more than a day's work on it, BUT none of the tasks absolutely HAD to be done that day, so it worked really well.
Wishing everyone a merry Christmas and a happy new year! Here's to a productive 2015.
Wishing everyone a merry Christmas and a happy new year! Here's to a productive 2015.
December 24, 2014 at 21:01 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson





1/ Michaek Linenberg developed his system in his book: Total Workload Control. His way to use To-do lists is smart and innovative.
2/ Francis Wade, in his: Perfect Time-Based Productivity , argues that time can't be managed, and identifies 7 essential skills to deal with time demands.