Discussion Forum > Project task connection dilemma
I think (and I believe it is Mark`s view too) task should be as granular as is convenient for you. Sometimes it is sufficient to write it down as very big fuzzy project (and you can tackle it/start with it as you feel it in the moment), sometimes it can be defined in a "GTD" project sense, which subtasks you put separately, but you can also put small, even tiny tasks in your task list, or several tasks from the same project etc. It does not matter. It all depends on what you feel as natural, what lowers you resistance or what suits you best in the moment.
So I believe it is not necessary to distinguish between next action and project (in GTD sense). Lets make tasks. As big or as small as we feel. In other words: you can have your project list in your AF4 list, if you want. You do not have to, if you do not.
So I believe it is not necessary to distinguish between next action and project (in GTD sense). Lets make tasks. As big or as small as we feel. In other words: you can have your project list in your AF4 list, if you want. You do not have to, if you do not.
February 28, 2015 at 19:22 |
Daneb
Daneb
I do find it helpful to maintain a short list of the long-term projects I am driving. This is not quite the same as David Allen's recommended "Projects" list. He defintes a project as anything that will take more than one next action to complete. As a result, a GTD project list is usually quite long. Mine is very short.
March 1, 2015 at 1:38 |
Austin
Austin
Thanks Daneb.
Makes a lot of sense to have any level of granularity in the task list - that is freedom. Occasionally I would have "organise new Project X" which i would attempt do in one hit. Then i would have something simple like "Get David's phone number for Project G contractor".
Sometimes the only reason I see to have the GTD project list - from my perspective - is so that i have something to print-off and to show when the boss starts skittling out new jobs :). A kind of "see how busy i am " list. The issue i found though is the overhead of keeping everything listed that has more than two steps;especially since i do not operate from this list.
Moreover, if i DON'T keep everything on that Project list, why do i bother at all ?!
So, i can see getting rid of the Project list is achievable. But is it realistic for me?
There is a new problem for me that i can see - The weekly review.
I read somewhere in this forum that AF4 has a built-in review in its method. Something like "weed out old tasks", and "don't cross out the current active task to re-write it until you have actually written the new task". I can't tell you how many times i've left gaping holes in my task list because i am flying too fast, performing non-related tasks back-to-back. AF4 in this sense alleviates that issue (then again, it seems like gtd is not at fault - it is me!)
If you can add to the 'Weekly review' comment that would be welcomed. If you're done, thanks for your input.
Makes a lot of sense to have any level of granularity in the task list - that is freedom. Occasionally I would have "organise new Project X" which i would attempt do in one hit. Then i would have something simple like "Get David's phone number for Project G contractor".
Sometimes the only reason I see to have the GTD project list - from my perspective - is so that i have something to print-off and to show when the boss starts skittling out new jobs :). A kind of "see how busy i am " list. The issue i found though is the overhead of keeping everything listed that has more than two steps;especially since i do not operate from this list.
Moreover, if i DON'T keep everything on that Project list, why do i bother at all ?!
So, i can see getting rid of the Project list is achievable. But is it realistic for me?
There is a new problem for me that i can see - The weekly review.
I read somewhere in this forum that AF4 has a built-in review in its method. Something like "weed out old tasks", and "don't cross out the current active task to re-write it until you have actually written the new task". I can't tell you how many times i've left gaping holes in my task list because i am flying too fast, performing non-related tasks back-to-back. AF4 in this sense alleviates that issue (then again, it seems like gtd is not at fault - it is me!)
If you can add to the 'Weekly review' comment that would be welcomed. If you're done, thanks for your input.
March 1, 2015 at 2:21 |
Alan
Alan
Austin:
I can see how keeping an inventory of the bigger jobs at home would work for me. Domestic repetitive chores could stay off that list.
In fact chores such as laundry generally stay off my task list altogether. Those things generally carry its own reminder - 'Um, ok the laundry floor is hidden by clothes', or, 'what is that smell'.
At work though, i feel the need to keep all or none at all.
Home stuff is just so much easier coz i am the captain of my ship at home.
PS. I do my laundry :)
I can see how keeping an inventory of the bigger jobs at home would work for me. Domestic repetitive chores could stay off that list.
In fact chores such as laundry generally stay off my task list altogether. Those things generally carry its own reminder - 'Um, ok the laundry floor is hidden by clothes', or, 'what is that smell'.
At work though, i feel the need to keep all or none at all.
Home stuff is just so much easier coz i am the captain of my ship at home.
PS. I do my laundry :)
March 1, 2015 at 2:49 |
Alan
Alan
Alan,
I don't think it's a matter of including or excluding things, but rather how much to break them into pieces. To do GTD well, your project list needs to break one major work project into numerous "projects" as Allen defines them. I prefer to keep a short list of the overarching projects that encompass the sub-projects within them. If I need to break a project out into pieces, I can track the sub-categories in excel or whatever gets the job done.
As for laundry, I just do it all every Saturday. That is not a project. It's a recurring task.
I don't think it's a matter of including or excluding things, but rather how much to break them into pieces. To do GTD well, your project list needs to break one major work project into numerous "projects" as Allen defines them. I prefer to keep a short list of the overarching projects that encompass the sub-projects within them. If I need to break a project out into pieces, I can track the sub-categories in excel or whatever gets the job done.
As for laundry, I just do it all every Saturday. That is not a project. It's a recurring task.
March 1, 2015 at 2:55 |
Austin
Austin
Regarding the need to show your boss how busy you are and what you're working on, I cannot speak for your boss, but mine would rather have a short summary of the few major accomplishments for the week than a long GTD-style list of mini-projects. My boss does not have time to track every single one of my actions and sub-projects. That is what I am being paid to do.
March 1, 2015 at 3:03 |
Austin
Austin
@Alan: I am sorry, I know AF4 only theoretically, I tried other Mark`s methods. So I cannot comment on "weekly review" with AF4 much.
But if I understand you correctly, what you need is to write down follow-up/next task in your system immediately after you cross out (delete) your old one, as a rule. That needs to be done with any system, not only AF4, and this is basic rule for me with whichever system I worked. It needs discipline - when you cross out task, think if there is any next task which should follow and write it down somewhere (calendar, task list, idea list etc).
Also, I found out that it is very convenient for me to have my "weekly overview" (=most important tasks and appointments for this week; not all, only most important) somewhere out of my normal system (with many tasks). It is helpful for quick review and sense of overview. I use paper weekly planner for it. (Although my TM system is in Things, iCal etc.)
But if I understand you correctly, what you need is to write down follow-up/next task in your system immediately after you cross out (delete) your old one, as a rule. That needs to be done with any system, not only AF4, and this is basic rule for me with whichever system I worked. It needs discipline - when you cross out task, think if there is any next task which should follow and write it down somewhere (calendar, task list, idea list etc).
Also, I found out that it is very convenient for me to have my "weekly overview" (=most important tasks and appointments for this week; not all, only most important) somewhere out of my normal system (with many tasks). It is helpful for quick review and sense of overview. I use paper weekly planner for it. (Although my TM system is in Things, iCal etc.)
March 1, 2015 at 9:27 |
Daneb
Daneb
My own approach is to mark any activities that require breaking down into a task list with an arrow of some sort. It helps me to notice where I haven't elaborated the steps involved, or where I lack clarity. Or sometimes where I feel overwhelmed. I tend to then pick up one such activity and write a list of tasks and put a square bracket around them of some sort to indicate they go together.
March 1, 2015 at 18:40 |
michael
michael
In AF4 I would write "Weekly Review" as one of the tasks. Only difference is it isn't strictly weekly, but the cadence of AF4 would tend to have the Closed list clear out once a week so it works. This approach also facilitates making Review a little-and-often task that you accomplish over some amount of time.
The other approach is to schedule it, and once a week it gets reinserted into your AF4 list.
As for projects, put that entire list into AF4. If any project needs details, have a folders or notebooks elsewhere with those details.
The other approach is to schedule it, and once a week it gets reinserted into your AF4 list.
As for projects, put that entire list into AF4. If any project needs details, have a folders or notebooks elsewhere with those details.
March 3, 2015 at 17:44 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
I don't know AF4 well but the problem is something I have struggled with.
Nowadays I write project name in uppercase letters to the list. Then I add an id after it. Then I add its information to a separate project list. Then I add to it among other things if and when and how and to whom I need to report the status information. Then I add the report related tasks either to my schedule or to my list.
A related task on the list has the project id at the end . When the task is done I either circle the project id or add a new task to the end ’New task to project ’id’’.
Nowadays I write project name in uppercase letters to the list. Then I add an id after it. Then I add its information to a separate project list. Then I add to it among other things if and when and how and to whom I need to report the status information. Then I add the report related tasks either to my schedule or to my list.
A related task on the list has the project id at the end . When the task is done I either circle the project id or add a new task to the end ’New task to project ’id’’.
March 6, 2015 at 23:21 |
pkNystrom
pkNystrom
Before I start, I should say that I am the least focused and discplined person imaginable. I am awful at routine and discipline, and if I ran a garage, I would be Joe Slob rather than Mick Cool. (If you don't get the reference then you should run, not walk, to anyone prepared to sell you a copy of "Do It Tomorrow".)
One thing that REALLY didn't help me was getting hung up on linking tasks to projects. I think it best to think of your task list as a personal list of things you are going to do. A list of your commitments (which I think is better than a list of projects) may help to keep things in focus and save you the nagging doubt that you are missing something. But my task list would be something like:
Get up
Ablutions
Dress
Feed
Check diary
Check commitments
What will I achieve today?
Exercise
Get to work
Start up routine (Siwtch on computer/ chat to colleagues/get coffee/ review action list)
Action 1
Action 2
Meeting 1
...
In my dreams!
:0)
Will
One thing that REALLY didn't help me was getting hung up on linking tasks to projects. I think it best to think of your task list as a personal list of things you are going to do. A list of your commitments (which I think is better than a list of projects) may help to keep things in focus and save you the nagging doubt that you are missing something. But my task list would be something like:
Get up
Ablutions
Dress
Feed
Check diary
Check commitments
What will I achieve today?
Exercise
Get to work
Start up routine (Siwtch on computer/ chat to colleagues/get coffee/ review action list)
Action 1
Action 2
Meeting 1
...
In my dreams!
:0)
Will
March 10, 2015 at 8:51 |
Will
Will
Will:
<< But my task list would be something like: >>
Looks exactly like mine!
<< But my task list would be something like: >>
Looks exactly like mine!
March 11, 2015 at 2:22 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Alan,
Sorry for being late getting to this thread
I have had great success in doing projects using what I had called "Context AF4", which uses the AF4 list structure but selecting more than one task at a time, similar to FV:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2446303
Briefly, the method is this:
You scan your AF4 list for a task that stands out and mark it. Then, you scan and mark your list again for tasks that answer the question: "What other tasks are in context with my current task?" If you did not select a task from the backlog, you dismiss all tasks in it. You then do the tasks marked in any order you see fit.
"Context" is made vague here because it depends on the first ("root") task. To quote myself from the thread posted, here are some examples:
----
• For example, the task that stood out was "Do laundry," which if you have a washing machine and drier you can effectively leave after loading and turning the machine on; therefore context here can be other tasks you can do while waiting the laundry to be done.
• Another example could be "Do grocery." You may have added what items you needed to buy in your AF List if you treat it like a true "grass catcher" like I try to do, so context would be to search for them and list them in a separate sheet of paper. You may also find some other errands you want to do while you are outside like "Get carwash" and "Buy flowers for mai waifu".
• The current task is a part of one of your projects. The in-context tasks are then the other tasks in your project that can be done now.
• The current task is a task that you have been putting off and had been languishing in your past Closed Lists and is about to be dismissed for the umpteenth time. You thus sit down and think of ways to reduce your resistance to doing the said task. You list these steps in your Open List and mark them right away as in-context tasks.
----
As you can see, this method can be used to accommodate simple projects.
Sorry for being late getting to this thread
I have had great success in doing projects using what I had called "Context AF4", which uses the AF4 list structure but selecting more than one task at a time, similar to FV:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2446303
Briefly, the method is this:
You scan your AF4 list for a task that stands out and mark it. Then, you scan and mark your list again for tasks that answer the question: "What other tasks are in context with my current task?" If you did not select a task from the backlog, you dismiss all tasks in it. You then do the tasks marked in any order you see fit.
"Context" is made vague here because it depends on the first ("root") task. To quote myself from the thread posted, here are some examples:
----
• For example, the task that stood out was "Do laundry," which if you have a washing machine and drier you can effectively leave after loading and turning the machine on; therefore context here can be other tasks you can do while waiting the laundry to be done.
• Another example could be "Do grocery." You may have added what items you needed to buy in your AF List if you treat it like a true "grass catcher" like I try to do, so context would be to search for them and list them in a separate sheet of paper. You may also find some other errands you want to do while you are outside like "Get carwash" and "Buy flowers for mai waifu".
• The current task is a part of one of your projects. The in-context tasks are then the other tasks in your project that can be done now.
• The current task is a task that you have been putting off and had been languishing in your past Closed Lists and is about to be dismissed for the umpteenth time. You thus sit down and think of ways to reduce your resistance to doing the said task. You list these steps in your Open List and mark them right away as in-context tasks.
----
As you can see, this method can be used to accommodate simple projects.
March 14, 2015 at 2:01 |
nuntym
nuntym
The project list is another moving part for me that I can't seem to get rid of. Do I need it? I don't know.
I often consider that perhaps it's somehow the way I write my tasks.
Would love to know how others get by with or without a project list. Has Mark or anyone posted on this matter