Discussion Forum > minor tasks list works great - but what about this?
Seraphim:
When I attend a meeting I take notes and mark every action that I've agreed to do. I then assign deadlines to them (if they didn't already have them) and put them in my calendar. The simple act of checking my calendar will then bring them to mind.
I also file my meeting notes in the project documentation, together with any documents that are issued at the meeting or subsequently (e.g. minutes). So whenever I tackle that project I will also be reminded of the action I need to take.
When I attend a meeting I take notes and mark every action that I've agreed to do. I then assign deadlines to them (if they didn't already have them) and put them in my calendar. The simple act of checking my calendar will then bring them to mind.
I also file my meeting notes in the project documentation, together with any documents that are issued at the meeting or subsequently (e.g. minutes). So whenever I tackle that project I will also be reminded of the action I need to take.
February 16, 2016 at 20:45 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Seraphim,
I too have been experimenting with the ideas spawned by what Mark has been writing lately. Here is an idea that I found extremely helpful for me today.
Much like the no-list approach, I wrote down 1 and only 1 item (from my head and not my lists) and told my self that no matter the interruptions, and I have many, I'm going to work on the item and finish that item in the next 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, I wrote down a new item from my head and started again.
Ideally the item I wrote down would take less than 30 minutes because I knew I would have interruptions, but I knew that my focus needed to always return to that item before the end of the 30 minutes. This was very beneficial in keeping *focus*. As interruptions came in, I would often either write it down on a reminder list or if it was super quick and I felt confident, I could deal with it without sabotaging my ability to get my single item done before the half hour I would do it.
During the day, one of my 30 minute items was to review and prune the "reminder list" During that time I would allow myself to delete or do as many items as I wanted from . But only for 30 minutes, and then it was back to resetting myself with a single item list of what was most important for the next 30 minutes. This was both a focus trick and allowed me to not be fearful that I was forgetting something.
Working with the half hour cadence, on the hour and half hour, worked well with my calendar as well because most meetings started and ended that way too. If I finished my item early, then I felt free to take a break knowing that I would pick things up again at the next cycle.
This is a little like the pomodoro technique, but rather than being focused on uninterrupted time, I was focused on an item I wanted to be done. Also notice I've avoided the word task and instead used item. An item can be a small project or a particular result like prep for upcoming meeting.
Also, reviewing the reminder list is a little like the backlog list Mark mentions in his book Do It Tomorrow where he suggests treating backlog like a project. I'm treating inboxes and reminder lists as projects.
So in short, I found success in relying on a no-list to do what my intuition said was important to do in that 30 minute block and I'm using the 30 minute trick to shape the *routines* of doing.
Thanks to Mark for helping me see that it isn't about the list, its about the doing
I too have been experimenting with the ideas spawned by what Mark has been writing lately. Here is an idea that I found extremely helpful for me today.
Much like the no-list approach, I wrote down 1 and only 1 item (from my head and not my lists) and told my self that no matter the interruptions, and I have many, I'm going to work on the item and finish that item in the next 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, I wrote down a new item from my head and started again.
Ideally the item I wrote down would take less than 30 minutes because I knew I would have interruptions, but I knew that my focus needed to always return to that item before the end of the 30 minutes. This was very beneficial in keeping *focus*. As interruptions came in, I would often either write it down on a reminder list or if it was super quick and I felt confident, I could deal with it without sabotaging my ability to get my single item done before the half hour I would do it.
During the day, one of my 30 minute items was to review and prune the "reminder list" During that time I would allow myself to delete or do as many items as I wanted from . But only for 30 minutes, and then it was back to resetting myself with a single item list of what was most important for the next 30 minutes. This was both a focus trick and allowed me to not be fearful that I was forgetting something.
Working with the half hour cadence, on the hour and half hour, worked well with my calendar as well because most meetings started and ended that way too. If I finished my item early, then I felt free to take a break knowing that I would pick things up again at the next cycle.
This is a little like the pomodoro technique, but rather than being focused on uninterrupted time, I was focused on an item I wanted to be done. Also notice I've avoided the word task and instead used item. An item can be a small project or a particular result like prep for upcoming meeting.
Also, reviewing the reminder list is a little like the backlog list Mark mentions in his book Do It Tomorrow where he suggests treating backlog like a project. I'm treating inboxes and reminder lists as projects.
So in short, I found success in relying on a no-list to do what my intuition said was important to do in that 30 minute block and I'm using the 30 minute trick to shape the *routines* of doing.
Thanks to Mark for helping me see that it isn't about the list, its about the doing
February 17, 2016 at 4:28 |
Brent
Brent
Mark Forster wrote:
<< I then assign deadlines to them (if they didn't already have them) and put them in my calendar. The simple act of checking my calendar will then bring them to mind. >>
I've been trying the same thing for a while, but the effect is that I build up a new list of reminders that now happens to reside in my calendar rather than in an FVP list. :-)
How do you prevent that from happening?
<< I then assign deadlines to them (if they didn't already have them) and put them in my calendar. The simple act of checking my calendar will then bring them to mind. >>
I've been trying the same thing for a while, but the effect is that I build up a new list of reminders that now happens to reside in my calendar rather than in an FVP list. :-)
How do you prevent that from happening?
February 17, 2016 at 15:47 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Brent wrote:
<< I'm treating inboxes and reminder lists as projects. >>
I've tried doing this, too. But I find that I end up with a random list of unassociated tasks, reminders, and commitments -- basically just another catch-all. How do you avoid that?
<< I'm treating inboxes and reminder lists as projects. >>
I've tried doing this, too. But I find that I end up with a random list of unassociated tasks, reminders, and commitments -- basically just another catch-all. How do you avoid that?
February 17, 2016 at 15:50 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
<< How do you prevent that from happening? >>
1. Never put anything on your calendar that you haven't make a definite commitment to do. No room for "maybe's"
2. Make less definite commitments to do things.
<< How do you prevent that from happening? >>
1. Never put anything on your calendar that you haven't make a definite commitment to do. No room for "maybe's"
2. Make less definite commitments to do things.
February 17, 2016 at 17:26 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Serephim,
<<I've tried doing this, too. But I find that I end up with a random list of unassociated tasks, reminders, and commitments -- basically just another catch-all. How do you avoid that?>>
I'm currently treating that list not as a task list but as sort of an inbox that needs to be emptied. The goal is to empty the list like an inbox and either delete the item entirely, schedule it, or put the item in a project reference list (no longer unassociated)
I made an important shift recently that keeps project next actions related to a project in a project reference list along with the project notes. Which means I'm abandoning, the stand alone next actions list in favor of a "no list". When my "no list" item says "work on project A" for 30 minutes, then I open up that project and see the references, notes and actions all in one place.
I'm learning that I do better pushing one larger project at a time and I treat emptying inboxes and reminder lists as a separate project that I only work on as needed. (Usually at least once a day)
<<I've tried doing this, too. But I find that I end up with a random list of unassociated tasks, reminders, and commitments -- basically just another catch-all. How do you avoid that?>>
I'm currently treating that list not as a task list but as sort of an inbox that needs to be emptied. The goal is to empty the list like an inbox and either delete the item entirely, schedule it, or put the item in a project reference list (no longer unassociated)
I made an important shift recently that keeps project next actions related to a project in a project reference list along with the project notes. Which means I'm abandoning, the stand alone next actions list in favor of a "no list". When my "no list" item says "work on project A" for 30 minutes, then I open up that project and see the references, notes and actions all in one place.
I'm learning that I do better pushing one larger project at a time and I treat emptying inboxes and reminder lists as a separate project that I only work on as needed. (Usually at least once a day)
February 18, 2016 at 13:43 |
Brent
Brent
Hm, pondering your answers (Mark and Brent), I think I am back to my *real* problem: overcommitment.
OK, time to start a new round of questioning... "Why do I keep getting overcommitted?" "Why do I keep getting overcommitted?" .......
:-)
OK, time to start a new round of questioning... "Why do I keep getting overcommitted?" "Why do I keep getting overcommitted?" .......
:-)
February 18, 2016 at 21:23 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Seraphim:
A better question would be:
"HOW do I keep getting over-committed?"
A better question would be:
"HOW do I keep getting over-committed?"
February 18, 2016 at 21:38 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Interesting. The "how" question is actually the first thing that came to mind, and I actually wrote that in my post. But while reading through it before clicking "Create Post", I recalled the guidance in Chapter 5 of SPP, which says to start with Why questions, then follow up with How questions. So I changed it to the "why" question -- because I've found that guidance to be really useful.
So I guess my question to you now is, why is the "HOW" question better in this case?
So I guess my question to you now is, why is the "HOW" question better in this case?
February 19, 2016 at 22:09 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Maybe a better question would be HOW is the how question better in this case! ;)
February 19, 2016 at 22:27 |
DAZ
DAZ
I think it is interesting how quickly we revert away answering the "real" question. Overcommitment.
It might not matter how we write our lists or ask our questions if we are avoiding the real issue.
It might have been a rhetorical question so I'm probably over stepping here but the "why" is we aren't saying "no" to commitments enough and the "how" is to learn when to say "no". I'm learning that part of saying "no" is "No, I can't but another person can". Saying no to a commitment isn't necessarily saying it shouldn't be done but rather acknowledging that someone else is going to have to do it or its going to have to wait.
Defer. Delegate. Assign. Let go. Ask for help.
Those are all forms of saying no to personal overload so that you can focus on the things that are the most important at the right times. I suspect you already know this but I'm reminding myself as much as anybody that productivity algorithms can only go so far and we sometimes need to step back and assess the real issues of capacity.
It might not matter how we write our lists or ask our questions if we are avoiding the real issue.
It might have been a rhetorical question so I'm probably over stepping here but the "why" is we aren't saying "no" to commitments enough and the "how" is to learn when to say "no". I'm learning that part of saying "no" is "No, I can't but another person can". Saying no to a commitment isn't necessarily saying it shouldn't be done but rather acknowledging that someone else is going to have to do it or its going to have to wait.
Defer. Delegate. Assign. Let go. Ask for help.
Those are all forms of saying no to personal overload so that you can focus on the things that are the most important at the right times. I suspect you already know this but I'm reminding myself as much as anybody that productivity algorithms can only go so far and we sometimes need to step back and assess the real issues of capacity.
February 19, 2016 at 23:13 |
Brent
Brent
I don't know why other people overcommit, but I know one reason I do: fear of missing out. If I don't start X project, someone else will and it will be super successful. I'll regret not doing it. It could be so fun, so gratifying. I focus on only the positives and not the negatives. I don't think through the FACT that I will have to give up something else to do it. The time fairy won't wave her magical wand adding extra time for this new endeavor to my life.
So now I am thinking through the process, not just the anticipated idealized results. I imagine myself working on X project instead of doing Y. I'm also letting the prospect simmer like an item on my wish list that becomes less appealing. I ask myself if the project helps me achieve my primary goal. I am focusing on being content with all the great things I already have in my life and I think about the fact that these potential projects are great opportunities for others who don't have my commitments.
This isn't working perfectly, but I'm doing better.
So now I am thinking through the process, not just the anticipated idealized results. I imagine myself working on X project instead of doing Y. I'm also letting the prospect simmer like an item on my wish list that becomes less appealing. I ask myself if the project helps me achieve my primary goal. I am focusing on being content with all the great things I already have in my life and I think about the fact that these potential projects are great opportunities for others who don't have my commitments.
This isn't working perfectly, but I'm doing better.
February 20, 2016 at 0:16 |
Melanie Wilson
Melanie Wilson
Seraphim:
<< So I guess my question to you now is, why is the "HOW" question better in this case? >>
Because you've already asked the "Why?" question which was "Why do I always end up with a huge random list of unassociated tasks, reminders, and commitments?" In fact you've been asking it ever since you joined this forum. And you already know the answer, which is "Over-commitment"
So now is the time to move onto the "How?" questions. And you'll know from the guidance in "Secrets" that before you can make a system that works you need to identify the system you have at the moment which is producing the wrong results.
The question you should be asking at the moment is not "How do I stop over-committing myself?", but "How am I over-committing myself at present?"
The way to do that according to "Secrets" is to work out the steps by which you accept an individual over-commitment. You will then have identified a system which is perfectly designed to produce the "huge random list". All you have to do then is to change it so that it doesn't.
Your present system will probably be something on these lines:
1. Ten possible future tasks come into your mind.
2. You write them on a list.
3. You action five of the tasks on the list.
4. You leave the other five till later.
The figures will vary of course but I expect this is more or less what happens.
Once you've identified the steps that you are taking at present, you can change the faulty system at any point in it.
<< So I guess my question to you now is, why is the "HOW" question better in this case? >>
Because you've already asked the "Why?" question which was "Why do I always end up with a huge random list of unassociated tasks, reminders, and commitments?" In fact you've been asking it ever since you joined this forum. And you already know the answer, which is "Over-commitment"
So now is the time to move onto the "How?" questions. And you'll know from the guidance in "Secrets" that before you can make a system that works you need to identify the system you have at the moment which is producing the wrong results.
The question you should be asking at the moment is not "How do I stop over-committing myself?", but "How am I over-committing myself at present?"
The way to do that according to "Secrets" is to work out the steps by which you accept an individual over-commitment. You will then have identified a system which is perfectly designed to produce the "huge random list". All you have to do then is to change it so that it doesn't.
Your present system will probably be something on these lines:
1. Ten possible future tasks come into your mind.
2. You write them on a list.
3. You action five of the tasks on the list.
4. You leave the other five till later.
The figures will vary of course but I expect this is more or less what happens.
Once you've identified the steps that you are taking at present, you can change the faulty system at any point in it.
February 20, 2016 at 9:53 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Seraphim and all:
My Monday blog post will be on the subject:
"Overcommitment - and what you can do to prevent it"
My Monday blog post will be on the subject:
"Overcommitment - and what you can do to prevent it"
February 20, 2016 at 22:52 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
This is not really on the topic of the "minor tasks" list, but is related.
I've been using a "minor tasks" list, as Mark describes in his post today, and it works well for capturing and then doing small one-off items.
But I'm still struggling with the best way to capture other, larger interruptions that come up while working in the "5T" mode. These items just seem to clog up the works. They can come in batches (for example, capturing various action items during a meeting, or at lunch with my coworkers). I feel the need for some kind of "catch all" or general list of reminders -- but don't want this to turn into (1) a persistent catch-all like FVP, for all the reasons Mark has been talking about lately, or (2) a kind of "feeder" list from which to feed the 5T list.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Now that I am writing this all down, an idea comes to mind. Maybe I should just start another Dynamic List called "reminders" and capture this kind of stuff there. And then add "reminders" to my 5T list whenever I feel like it. And then throw it all away at the end of the day.
I could imagine that this would work pretty well, but it reminds me of another thing I'm struggling with ... *urgent* interruptions. I'll post about that separately (DONE, posted at http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2575890 )