Discussion Forum > Priority Simple Scanning
I forgot to add (maybe it was already evident) that with the sticky note, you do not cross it out and reenter at the end of your list. Once you finish working on the big project on your sticky note, you simply unstick it from the page and continue scanning.
You can of course once you finish your big project entirely, write it on your list and cross it off just for the victory of finishing something big. But then again, none of us would EVER write something on our list just to cross it off right after, would we.
You can of course once you finish your big project entirely, write it on your list and cross it off just for the victory of finishing something big. But then again, none of us would EVER write something on our list just to cross it off right after, would we.
November 26, 2018 at 3:32 |
Cameron
Cameron
I have done this to interleave work on a project with other list items, but I did not test the project for standing-out-ness.
I scanned the list for an item to do, stuck the Post-it next to it, did the item, then worked on the Post-it project until getting a feeling of "done for now," then scanned for another item and moved the Post-it. Each time I stopped work on the project, I crossed it out on the Post-it and rewrote its next task underneath on the Post-it. Naturally, when I next came to the project, I might find that the task I wrote was not really the right task, so I would do a better task instead (on that same project), but rewriting it kept the mental wheels spinning and kept the project feeling fresh.
The effect was as if I had two lists and was ping-ponging between them, with the 2nd list receiving only rewritten items from the selected project.
I basically liked it, but I didn't do it for very long. I have had several ideas for variations on this, because I like the idea of returning focus to *one* project while getting other transitory things done, but I haven't actually tried out my other ideas. I don't why, but I guess as simple as these ideas are, their tiny amount of overhead is too much.
I scanned the list for an item to do, stuck the Post-it next to it, did the item, then worked on the Post-it project until getting a feeling of "done for now," then scanned for another item and moved the Post-it. Each time I stopped work on the project, I crossed it out on the Post-it and rewrote its next task underneath on the Post-it. Naturally, when I next came to the project, I might find that the task I wrote was not really the right task, so I would do a better task instead (on that same project), but rewriting it kept the mental wheels spinning and kept the project feeling fresh.
The effect was as if I had two lists and was ping-ponging between them, with the 2nd list receiving only rewritten items from the selected project.
I basically liked it, but I didn't do it for very long. I have had several ideas for variations on this, because I like the idea of returning focus to *one* project while getting other transitory things done, but I haven't actually tried out my other ideas. I don't why, but I guess as simple as these ideas are, their tiny amount of overhead is too much.
November 26, 2018 at 18:33 |
Bernie
Bernie
That is interesting that you came up with a very similar system Bernie. I wonder if "the tiny overhead that is too much" might be eliminated by not rewriting the next action, but just sticking with the big project title only. Writing the next actions, GTD style, can be helpful, but I have found that it can also produce a large amount of overhead in the system that just plain wasn't worth it to me.
November 26, 2018 at 18:55 |
Cameron
Cameron
Cameron,
That's a good point, though I intuitively feel like the overhead (perhaps "resistance" is a better term, though I know there is no such thing ;p) was in choosing the project and being definite about going into "ping-pong mode" at a certain moment. If I were easily able to choose the right moment to be ping-ponging on the right project (or no project), I doubt I would need a list or method at all.
It would be interesting to experiment and see if that intuition can be falsified, but that does not necessarily mean I will do it!
---
FWIW, here is my latest untested idea along these lines:
Ping-pong between the last page and current page/item of your list. And by "last page," I really mean the last two pages, since one of them is a partial open page that might only have a few items on it.
The value in ping-ponging to the last page(s) is that you can use standing-out to select the ping-pong task, and it may often result in hitting the same project a bunch of times, or at least a small group of projects. Maybe it will even sneak in a few urgencies that were freshly written down.
Two pages might be too large, spreading out the ping-pong focus too much, in which case maybe a certain number of lines is the way to go, but I hate counting lines.
I imagine using a sticky note to mark the current page/item so you can return there after ping-ponging to the last page(s). Keep scanning from there and move the sticky note. I think this can be adapted for most of the long list methods.
BTW, these ping-ponging ideas come very close to SuperFocus. If we could get the balance right, we might discover Final SuperFocus.
That's a good point, though I intuitively feel like the overhead (perhaps "resistance" is a better term, though I know there is no such thing ;p) was in choosing the project and being definite about going into "ping-pong mode" at a certain moment. If I were easily able to choose the right moment to be ping-ponging on the right project (or no project), I doubt I would need a list or method at all.
It would be interesting to experiment and see if that intuition can be falsified, but that does not necessarily mean I will do it!
---
FWIW, here is my latest untested idea along these lines:
Ping-pong between the last page and current page/item of your list. And by "last page," I really mean the last two pages, since one of them is a partial open page that might only have a few items on it.
The value in ping-ponging to the last page(s) is that you can use standing-out to select the ping-pong task, and it may often result in hitting the same project a bunch of times, or at least a small group of projects. Maybe it will even sneak in a few urgencies that were freshly written down.
Two pages might be too large, spreading out the ping-pong focus too much, in which case maybe a certain number of lines is the way to go, but I hate counting lines.
I imagine using a sticky note to mark the current page/item so you can return there after ping-ponging to the last page(s). Keep scanning from there and move the sticky note. I think this can be adapted for most of the long list methods.
BTW, these ping-ponging ideas come very close to SuperFocus. If we could get the balance right, we might discover Final SuperFocus.
November 27, 2018 at 2:02 |
Bernie
Bernie
I thought the ping-pong concept sounded familiar, so I searched this forum for "ping," and I found Andreas' thread from 2010!
PING-PONG-AF: My ultimate tweak!
http ://markforster.squarespace .com/forum/post/988459
(I broke up the link to get past the Captcha, so you'll have to copy and paste it back together)
He alternates an AF1 workflow between the last page and the active page. On each page, he circulates around until nothing stands out. I'm pretty sure I tried this a bit, though I didn't show up here until 2011 or 2012.
I think I prefer ping-ponging one task at a time, instead of staying on each page until nothing stands out. At least, that is what I imagine preferring if I were to try it.
PING-PONG-AF: My ultimate tweak!
http ://markforster.squarespace .com/forum/post/988459
(I broke up the link to get past the Captcha, so you'll have to copy and paste it back together)
He alternates an AF1 workflow between the last page and the active page. On each page, he circulates around until nothing stands out. I'm pretty sure I tried this a bit, though I didn't show up here until 2011 or 2012.
I think I prefer ping-ponging one task at a time, instead of staying on each page until nothing stands out. At least, that is what I imagine preferring if I were to try it.
November 28, 2018 at 5:00 |
Bernie
Bernie
Here's a format I tried before:
1. Write on the right half only of the right pages of your notebook.
2. When a page become full, fold it in half such that the writing is still visible if you turn to it.
Notice that your last page is always visible. And an older page is always visible on the left side. This format is usable with any algorithm [except Super Focus, it needs 2 columns]. It is a mere physical convenience to be able to enter new stuff without flipping to the back.
But this format is especially convenient for a ping-pong algorithnm, which can use any base rules. For example Simple Ping Pong:
1. Scan the left and right pages doing anything that stands out.
[The right page happens to be the back page.]
2. Turn the page.
3. Repeat.
I never ping-ponged anything but the above seems like it would work.
1. Write on the right half only of the right pages of your notebook.
2. When a page become full, fold it in half such that the writing is still visible if you turn to it.
Notice that your last page is always visible. And an older page is always visible on the left side. This format is usable with any algorithm [except Super Focus, it needs 2 columns]. It is a mere physical convenience to be able to enter new stuff without flipping to the back.
But this format is especially convenient for a ping-pong algorithnm, which can use any base rules. For example Simple Ping Pong:
1. Scan the left and right pages doing anything that stands out.
[The right page happens to be the back page.]
2. Turn the page.
3. Repeat.
I never ping-ponged anything but the above seems like it would work.
November 28, 2018 at 14:31 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan, that is clever and elegant. It prompted me to consider implementing something like it in my OneNote setup.
But as I thought through it, I realized it would increase response to urgency, and increase exposure to the most active tasks, but at the cost of slowing down the cycling through the list as a whole. And that cycling is critical for the smooth functioning of any long-list system, as discussed here: http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2725827
So it seems to me it would threaten the smooth functioning of the system overall. And I'm guessing the other tweaks discussed in this thread would do the same thing.
This reminds me of Mark's comments that he was trying for 20 years to find a way to improve on Simple Scanning but in the end all the improvements came with extra complications and tradeoffs, and Simple Scanning was still the best. As far as list systems go, I am beginning to think the same thing.
But as I thought through it, I realized it would increase response to urgency, and increase exposure to the most active tasks, but at the cost of slowing down the cycling through the list as a whole. And that cycling is critical for the smooth functioning of any long-list system, as discussed here: http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2725827
So it seems to me it would threaten the smooth functioning of the system overall. And I'm guessing the other tweaks discussed in this thread would do the same thing.
This reminds me of Mark's comments that he was trying for 20 years to find a way to improve on Simple Scanning but in the end all the improvements came with extra complications and tradeoffs, and Simple Scanning was still the best. As far as list systems go, I am beginning to think the same thing.
November 28, 2018 at 18:11 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Hi Seraphim,
I forgot that you use Onenote. I have been using it with a vengeance since trying the modified AF2 method. I am always looking for new ideas on how to use it. i will start a new thread and share what I have been doing and would like to hear from you and others as well.
I forgot that you use Onenote. I have been using it with a vengeance since trying the modified AF2 method. I am always looking for new ideas on how to use it. i will start a new thread and share what I have been doing and would like to hear from you and others as well.
November 28, 2018 at 20:28 |
vegheadjones
vegheadjones
A simple method of implementing One Big Project with Simple Scanning.
Mark up one project/task on your list as priority. How you do that is up to you, but I would just write "P" in the margin next to it.
The P task is treated like any other task, except that you have to do some work on it every time you come to it unless no intervening task has been selected. In that case you pass over it.
In other words you don't work on it twice in a row without doing anything else in between.
Mark up one project/task on your list as priority. How you do that is up to you, but I would just write "P" in the margin next to it.
The P task is treated like any other task, except that you have to do some work on it every time you come to it unless no intervening task has been selected. In that case you pass over it.
In other words you don't work on it twice in a row without doing anything else in between.
January 25, 2019 at 12:06 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Very helpful post, I've tried the now habit in the past... I really like the one big project idea. Very good way of combining a long list with one thing that you want to give higher priority to. Reminds me of the current intiaitive yet it seems more flexible. Thanks!
January 26, 2019 at 8:31 |
leon
leon
Mark, that seems very similar to Bernie's idea that he describes here:
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2725530#post2731762
(except for the Day List that he uses as a "front end" to his Long List).
Have you tried this?
I haven't tried this exactly, but did try several similar methods. I found two things:
(1) I would tend to resist whatever task I marked with the special symbol
(2) I think the resistance happens because I always have a handful of things that need focus -- almost never just One Big Thing
Limiting the focus to just one thing, and always coming back to that one thing, didn't work for me.
Limiting the focus to a FEW things, and repeatedly cycling through those few things, with occasional excursions to deal with other things -- this DOES work for me.
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2725530#post2731762
(except for the Day List that he uses as a "front end" to his Long List).
Have you tried this?
I haven't tried this exactly, but did try several similar methods. I found two things:
(1) I would tend to resist whatever task I marked with the special symbol
(2) I think the resistance happens because I always have a handful of things that need focus -- almost never just One Big Thing
Limiting the focus to just one thing, and always coming back to that one thing, didn't work for me.
Limiting the focus to a FEW things, and repeatedly cycling through those few things, with occasional excursions to deal with other things -- this DOES work for me.
January 27, 2019 at 1:33 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
So, I thought I would try a modification to "the unschedule" using simple scanning. It works like this:
First, select the one project that you want to spend a lot of time on and make a huge dent in.
Then, assuming you are using a notebook and pen, write the project on a sticky note. Then scan through the list using the regular simple scanning rules. When you get an item that stands out and you want to work on, put the sticky note directly under that item. After working on the item, you continue simple scanning from the last item worked on, but then the next item you get to is the sticky note. You scan the item on the sticky note as if it were already on the list in that very position, and see if it stands out. If not, pick up the sticky and move on to the next item in the notebook that stands out. Once you do, put the sticky note after that item. Repeat this process.
In short, you should always be "inserting" you big project right after the item that stands out and you work on. You are continually presented every time after finishing an item if you want to return to your big project. It might look like this:
Vacuum stairs (selected)
Sticky note: Big project (not right now)
Clean car (selected)
Sticky note: Big project (selected)
Print contract (selected)
Sticky Note: Big project (selected)
Go to store (selected)
Sticky Note: Big project (not right now)
Watch tv (selected)
Sticky Note: Big project (not right now)
Mow lawn (selected)
Sticky Note: Big project (not right now)
Check blog (selected)
Sticky note: Big project (selected)
Hopefully you get the idea.
I actually use digital software called workflowy for my lists since I'm at a computer all day. It is almost as efficient as paper for me, but I just plain love the software, so the fun factor comes into play. Anyway, digitally, it is super easy for me to just click and drag a big project task down through my list and insert right after the item that stands out. I am able to get to my big, urgent project at work many many times a day, while still getting to the lesser urgent things in between.
Perhaps Mark has already devised this system already?
If you have two or three big projects, those could theoretically be added to the sticky note. My gut feel is that you wouldn't want to go above that to 4+, but I've not tried more than one, so it would be up to individual users to decide.