Discussion Forum > Serial No-List -- when the old pages build up
Seraphim,
The Time Surfing book avrum pointed us to overlaps much of this topic. As the sages say, you are climbing the same mountain by a different path.
avrum's thread "Book: Time Surfing"
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2733920
The Time Surfing book avrum pointed us to overlaps much of this topic. As the sages say, you are climbing the same mountain by a different path.
avrum's thread "Book: Time Surfing"
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2733920
February 13, 2019 at 8:48 |
Bernie
Bernie
Seraphim -- Thanks for this update. I've not been using the method long enough to hit this problem, but then, I've also been hit with lots of work at a peculiar time of the year.
I've been feeling guilty about the previous Long List notebook I was keeping -- should I copy over all the old tasks, shouldn't I review them now and then, etc.?
One of my experiments has been to ignore those niggling feelings of guilt, doubt, and should, and instead pay no attention to them. I think wisdom and "knowing" communicates to us in a more healthy, positive voice than does these negative voices. In our case, it's communicating to us via the serial no-list.
Example: I was involved in a video-editing project for my banjo teacher. I got to a good stopping place before Christmas and stopped totally :) I have been wondering whether to put it on no-list, just to pin it in place, but I'm trusting my intuition/wisdom to present the task to me when reality is ready to accept it. As it happens, my teacher has also been distracted lately, has not asked for it, and has not done anything with the previous videos I've done for him. So the urgency is, I think, coming from my ego, which wants to see itself as fulfilling all its commitments, when in fact there are more variables than my ego at play here. I am trusting that when my attention floats back to the project, that's the time when it will want to be done.
And it sounds like I would really like this "Time Surfing" book!
I've been feeling guilty about the previous Long List notebook I was keeping -- should I copy over all the old tasks, shouldn't I review them now and then, etc.?
One of my experiments has been to ignore those niggling feelings of guilt, doubt, and should, and instead pay no attention to them. I think wisdom and "knowing" communicates to us in a more healthy, positive voice than does these negative voices. In our case, it's communicating to us via the serial no-list.
Example: I was involved in a video-editing project for my banjo teacher. I got to a good stopping place before Christmas and stopped totally :) I have been wondering whether to put it on no-list, just to pin it in place, but I'm trusting my intuition/wisdom to present the task to me when reality is ready to accept it. As it happens, my teacher has also been distracted lately, has not asked for it, and has not done anything with the previous videos I've done for him. So the urgency is, I think, coming from my ego, which wants to see itself as fulfilling all its commitments, when in fact there are more variables than my ego at play here. I am trusting that when my attention floats back to the project, that's the time when it will want to be done.
And it sounds like I would really like this "Time Surfing" book!
February 13, 2019 at 16:54 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
Mark or Seraphim -- I'm unable to create a new Discussion Forum post.
I'm not logged in (I think Mark disabled that) and the captcha doesn't work anymore, I know that.
I can create replies just fine. But in trying to create a new top-level forum post, I get the bum captcha and clicking Confirm Post does nothing.
Tried searching for workaround in the forum but Google was not helpful.
I'm not logged in (I think Mark disabled that) and the captcha doesn't work anymore, I know that.
I can create replies just fine. But in trying to create a new top-level forum post, I get the bum captcha and clicking Confirm Post does nothing.
Tried searching for workaround in the forum but Google was not helpful.
February 13, 2019 at 17:47 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
Mike Brown:
You can still log in if you can remember your log-in details. If you can't, send me your log-in name and a new password. Though whether that will solve the problem for you I don't know.
I'm unable to reproduce the problem. I can create a new thread while signed out as easily as when I'm signed in.
Unfortunately Squarespace support for this old version is virtually non-existent, and I'm not willing to invest the time and effort to migrate this website to a newer version.
If this problem continues, let me know the title of the thread you want to start and I'll post it for you.
You can still log in if you can remember your log-in details. If you can't, send me your log-in name and a new password. Though whether that will solve the problem for you I don't know.
I'm unable to reproduce the problem. I can create a new thread while signed out as easily as when I'm signed in.
Unfortunately Squarespace support for this old version is virtually non-existent, and I'm not willing to invest the time and effort to migrate this website to a newer version.
If this problem continues, let me know the title of the thread you want to start and I'll post it for you.
February 13, 2019 at 18:39 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mike Brown -
<< One of my experiments has been to ignore those niggling feelings of guilt, doubt, and should, and instead pay no attention to them >>
Interesting experiment! It will be very interesting to see how that works out.
I'm about a third of the way through Time Surfing, and that seems to be his approach too, but I can't really tell for sure. I've been letting the iPhone try to read the Kindle version to me while I am commuting, and sometimes the mechanical voice is hard to understand. I may need to actually sit down and READ this one. 🙂
My approach has always been to put those niggling things on the list and see what happens. I'm not saying it's better, I'm just saying your approach never occurred to me!
<< One of my experiments has been to ignore those niggling feelings of guilt, doubt, and should, and instead pay no attention to them >>
Interesting experiment! It will be very interesting to see how that works out.
I'm about a third of the way through Time Surfing, and that seems to be his approach too, but I can't really tell for sure. I've been letting the iPhone try to read the Kindle version to me while I am commuting, and sometimes the mechanical voice is hard to understand. I may need to actually sit down and READ this one. 🙂
My approach has always been to put those niggling things on the list and see what happens. I'm not saying it's better, I'm just saying your approach never occurred to me!
February 14, 2019 at 5:02 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Mark: I successfully logged in (amazing I remembered that password) and created the new thread with no problem. I was unable to create the thread when not logged in.
Seraphim: It's an interesting approach to life. We assault ourselves with so many thoughts every day, and not every one of them is helpful or worth paying attention to. The ones that stick around are the ones our imaginations are paying attention to most often, but do those thoughts reflect actual reality? Acknowledging and then ignoring the ones that are not helpful is one way to deal with them; writing them down and really questioning whether they're worth worrying about is another. They likely both lead to the same place.
Seraphim: It's an interesting approach to life. We assault ourselves with so many thoughts every day, and not every one of them is helpful or worth paying attention to. The ones that stick around are the ones our imaginations are paying attention to most often, but do those thoughts reflect actual reality? Acknowledging and then ignoring the ones that are not helpful is one way to deal with them; writing them down and really questioning whether they're worth worrying about is another. They likely both lead to the same place.
February 14, 2019 at 15:12 |
Mike Brown
Mike Brown
There's two different tasks here.
One is reading the old list for anything urgent and important that you've forgotten. That's just reading, not scary or resisted -- unless you think there's something lurking. Even scarier if you feel you've forgotten something, and suspect it's not on the list. As long as you don't read it, you can believe it's safely waiting. If you are very good about writing everything down and reviewing regularly, not scary.
The other task is shortening the list. Deciding what to do about all the old, less-urgent, less-important (except, as Mike pointed out, to our egos) tasks. Those are difficult decisions.
One is reading the old list for anything urgent and important that you've forgotten. That's just reading, not scary or resisted -- unless you think there's something lurking. Even scarier if you feel you've forgotten something, and suspect it's not on the list. As long as you don't read it, you can believe it's safely waiting. If you are very good about writing everything down and reviewing regularly, not scary.
The other task is shortening the list. Deciding what to do about all the old, less-urgent, less-important (except, as Mike pointed out, to our egos) tasks. Those are difficult decisions.
February 14, 2019 at 22:01 |
Cricket
Cricket
Cricket -
<< The other task is shortening the list. >>
This is one of the unexpected things I am finding with Serial No-List. There is no pressure at all to clear out the old items. The old things get taken care of at the right time. Yet somehow the list stays compact. I was expecting this to be more of a problem...
<< The other task is shortening the list. >>
This is one of the unexpected things I am finding with Serial No-List. There is no pressure at all to clear out the old items. The old things get taken care of at the right time. Yet somehow the list stays compact. I was expecting this to be more of a problem...
February 16, 2019 at 1:44 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
I had this issue arise when using Autofocus Condensed (very similar to your method Seraphim). I would just switch to regular AF in "clean up old pages mode" - about twice a week. Worked perfectly!
February 17, 2019 at 18:44 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Jacqueline -
<< Autofocus Condensed >>
Another blast from the past! That one is almost ten years old as well!
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/772038
Yes, I can see it does have some similarities. I want to explore this connection a bit more...
AF Condensed would have you going back through the whole list at the start of the day and copy forward whatever stood out. This would give you a condensed list of all the most relevant stuff. You’d cycle through it till it was all done. Only then could you go look at the earlier stuff you had left undotted. So you had a very relevant list, with strong engagement and flow. And good responsiveness to urgent items. But a sense of restriction about those older items. And also a sense of pressure imposed by the AF1 dismissal rule. And a lengthy daily startup. I could see this being very attractive for the engagement and relevance but ultimately generating resistance to the system because of the restrictions, pressures, and overhead.
This seens similar to Final Version in some ways. Except FV only had you dot the items that stood out, not copy them - a faster startup/scanning process. The other difference is you process the dotted tasks in strict order. This ordering could go stale pretty easily. So it gave you a list of the most relevant stuff, and did it more quickly, but introduced even more potential for resistance. And it could not respond to new urgent items effectively.
Mark introduced FVP to remove those limitations of FV. And actually I think Serial No-List is closest in overall feel to FVP. The fundamental difference is the way you start. In FVP, you start by scanning - in other words, by reviewing whatever was most relevant to you the last time you were using your list. In Serial No-List, you start with a blank page and writing down whatever is on your mind - whatever is most relevant RIGHT NOW. This makes a surprisingly large impact on the dynamics of the system. It’s even more engaging and relevant than FVP - which might be expected. It also makes you mentally less dependent on the list - more dependent on your own intuition and awareness of your current reality. But somehow through all that, the list stays compact, unlike FVP in my experience. I am still not sure I understand why. I think the absence of most recurring tasks is a factor, but it doesn’t seem it could be the full explanation.
Anyway, it’s good to see you still here, Jacqueline. Remember that spinoff discussion group we formed, about philosophy and religion? That was a lot of fun. What ever happened to Mike? Mel still posts here once every blue moon. Who else was in that group? I think Alan was there. And Mark of course.
<< Autofocus Condensed >>
Another blast from the past! That one is almost ten years old as well!
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/772038
Yes, I can see it does have some similarities. I want to explore this connection a bit more...
AF Condensed would have you going back through the whole list at the start of the day and copy forward whatever stood out. This would give you a condensed list of all the most relevant stuff. You’d cycle through it till it was all done. Only then could you go look at the earlier stuff you had left undotted. So you had a very relevant list, with strong engagement and flow. And good responsiveness to urgent items. But a sense of restriction about those older items. And also a sense of pressure imposed by the AF1 dismissal rule. And a lengthy daily startup. I could see this being very attractive for the engagement and relevance but ultimately generating resistance to the system because of the restrictions, pressures, and overhead.
This seens similar to Final Version in some ways. Except FV only had you dot the items that stood out, not copy them - a faster startup/scanning process. The other difference is you process the dotted tasks in strict order. This ordering could go stale pretty easily. So it gave you a list of the most relevant stuff, and did it more quickly, but introduced even more potential for resistance. And it could not respond to new urgent items effectively.
Mark introduced FVP to remove those limitations of FV. And actually I think Serial No-List is closest in overall feel to FVP. The fundamental difference is the way you start. In FVP, you start by scanning - in other words, by reviewing whatever was most relevant to you the last time you were using your list. In Serial No-List, you start with a blank page and writing down whatever is on your mind - whatever is most relevant RIGHT NOW. This makes a surprisingly large impact on the dynamics of the system. It’s even more engaging and relevant than FVP - which might be expected. It also makes you mentally less dependent on the list - more dependent on your own intuition and awareness of your current reality. But somehow through all that, the list stays compact, unlike FVP in my experience. I am still not sure I understand why. I think the absence of most recurring tasks is a factor, but it doesn’t seem it could be the full explanation.
Anyway, it’s good to see you still here, Jacqueline. Remember that spinoff discussion group we formed, about philosophy and religion? That was a lot of fun. What ever happened to Mike? Mel still posts here once every blue moon. Who else was in that group? I think Alan was there. And Mark of course.
February 18, 2019 at 5:42 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Hey Seraphim,
I believe I worked AF Condensed a little differently than Simon did. I had my (home) list broken out by time of day and didn't pull only from my "old" pages but also wrote top of mind things down for the day. It was about a 50/50 split of old and new tasks in my case.
For example, on a daily page, I would write say 5 things I would do in the morning before work (eg routines I had going - weights, walk dog, laundry, writing...). Then I would write a longer list of personal things I wanted to get done during work hours and an even longer list of things to do after work. I never had any intention of finishing everything on this daily list in a day. For some reason, having the choice of using structured procrastination lowered resistance dramatically. BUT I found (for me) using it for a full day for home projects on a weekend was really tiring. That's when I would switch gears to AF which was super easy to do because I had an AF list pre-built from old AF Condensed uncompleted items. I suspect I didn't put enough leisure activities or small tasks on my AF Condensed daily weekend lists. Also, I still really enjoy the feeling of clearing an older AF page. :-)
I don't recall having issues with overhead or resistance. The list would take about 5 minutes to write for the day. I'd estimate I'd have maybe 7-10 pages max to review at any time for older items to pull forward from and most of those pages were 75%+ complete already.
Sadly, I didn't have any luck with FV/ FVP when I tried it. I'd always feel resistance to the chain at about 2-3 items in.
I'm excited to use it again for the Lent challenge (along with trying full carnivory)! Maybe I'll finally read "The Battle for God" (which I've had gathering dust on my bookshelves probably since those old days LOL).
Also... I suspect that engaging in the forum itself might be key to making these systems work better for people. I will have to include that task on my daily list. ;-)
I'm glad no list works so well for you. That's pretty much what I do at work and I always feel on top of things with it. It's a great way to work.
I believe I worked AF Condensed a little differently than Simon did. I had my (home) list broken out by time of day and didn't pull only from my "old" pages but also wrote top of mind things down for the day. It was about a 50/50 split of old and new tasks in my case.
For example, on a daily page, I would write say 5 things I would do in the morning before work (eg routines I had going - weights, walk dog, laundry, writing...). Then I would write a longer list of personal things I wanted to get done during work hours and an even longer list of things to do after work. I never had any intention of finishing everything on this daily list in a day. For some reason, having the choice of using structured procrastination lowered resistance dramatically. BUT I found (for me) using it for a full day for home projects on a weekend was really tiring. That's when I would switch gears to AF which was super easy to do because I had an AF list pre-built from old AF Condensed uncompleted items. I suspect I didn't put enough leisure activities or small tasks on my AF Condensed daily weekend lists. Also, I still really enjoy the feeling of clearing an older AF page. :-)
I don't recall having issues with overhead or resistance. The list would take about 5 minutes to write for the day. I'd estimate I'd have maybe 7-10 pages max to review at any time for older items to pull forward from and most of those pages were 75%+ complete already.
Sadly, I didn't have any luck with FV/ FVP when I tried it. I'd always feel resistance to the chain at about 2-3 items in.
I'm excited to use it again for the Lent challenge (along with trying full carnivory)! Maybe I'll finally read "The Battle for God" (which I've had gathering dust on my bookshelves probably since those old days LOL).
Also... I suspect that engaging in the forum itself might be key to making these systems work better for people. I will have to include that task on my daily list. ;-)
I'm glad no list works so well for you. That's pretty much what I do at work and I always feel on top of things with it. It's a great way to work.
February 18, 2019 at 18:51 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Seraphim,
It sounds like, you realized that the goal was shortening the list, rather than doing the things on it -- and that goal isn't urgent or important.
I've bounced between systems and books too much lately. One of the reasons, I think, is that my book is too large. I used to fill one every few months, recopying about 20 things to the new one. Last week I finally declared a page "end/start of book" and recopied the old things to the 1st page of the new one. Seeing them all on one clean page rather than lurking in the shadows was reassuring. Also, a smaller book doesn't feel as overwhelming physically.
Going through the entire old list every day is too often for me. I'm not good (though getting better) at saying, "No, not today." I keep asking, "If not today, then when? Maybe I should write it on today's list just in case I have time, and that way I'm sure to have time for it tomorrow. Honest."
FVP on the entire list put too much pressure on things at the start of the list, old things that should have died rather than been dotted. It started too many plates spinning. I got a lot done -- more than usual -- but not on the right things. This was when we were to work all the way back to the root task rather than re-scan from the last dot or erase all the dots frequently. I still use it informally on day-length lists and shorter, with very short chains that might not include the first line, rather than doing the first line without considering the rest.
It sounds like, you realized that the goal was shortening the list, rather than doing the things on it -- and that goal isn't urgent or important.
I've bounced between systems and books too much lately. One of the reasons, I think, is that my book is too large. I used to fill one every few months, recopying about 20 things to the new one. Last week I finally declared a page "end/start of book" and recopied the old things to the 1st page of the new one. Seeing them all on one clean page rather than lurking in the shadows was reassuring. Also, a smaller book doesn't feel as overwhelming physically.
Going through the entire old list every day is too often for me. I'm not good (though getting better) at saying, "No, not today." I keep asking, "If not today, then when? Maybe I should write it on today's list just in case I have time, and that way I'm sure to have time for it tomorrow. Honest."
FVP on the entire list put too much pressure on things at the start of the list, old things that should have died rather than been dotted. It started too many plates spinning. I got a lot done -- more than usual -- but not on the right things. This was when we were to work all the way back to the root task rather than re-scan from the last dot or erase all the dots frequently. I still use it informally on day-length lists and shorter, with very short chains that might not include the first line, rather than doing the first line without considering the rest.
February 18, 2019 at 20:28 |
Cricket
Cricket
Jacqueline -
<< I believe I worked AF Condensed a little differently than Simon did. I ... also wrote top of mind things down for the day. >>
Yes, that sounds very similar to Serial No-List. And it sounds like you managed it with fewer restrictions. I can see why it didn't ever generate resistance for you.
<< Sadly, I didn't have any luck with FV/ FVP when I tried it. I'd always feel resistance to the chain at about 2-3 items in. >>
I often had that problem with FV, but not with FVP. You can always add something fresh to the end of the chain with FVP. Even in FV, you are allowed to de-select all the dots and start over, but it was always a pain to do that. (How do you erase the dots if you are using ink?)
<< Also... I suspect that engaging in the forum itself might be key to making these systems work better for people. >>
That aligns well with one of Mel's observations from her book. Something like, "The most productive people are always trying new ways to improve their productivity."
<< I'm glad no list works so well for you. That's pretty much what I do at work and I always feel on top of things with it. It's a great way to work. >>
Agreed! 🙂
<< I believe I worked AF Condensed a little differently than Simon did. I ... also wrote top of mind things down for the day. >>
Yes, that sounds very similar to Serial No-List. And it sounds like you managed it with fewer restrictions. I can see why it didn't ever generate resistance for you.
<< Sadly, I didn't have any luck with FV/ FVP when I tried it. I'd always feel resistance to the chain at about 2-3 items in. >>
I often had that problem with FV, but not with FVP. You can always add something fresh to the end of the chain with FVP. Even in FV, you are allowed to de-select all the dots and start over, but it was always a pain to do that. (How do you erase the dots if you are using ink?)
<< Also... I suspect that engaging in the forum itself might be key to making these systems work better for people. >>
That aligns well with one of Mel's observations from her book. Something like, "The most productive people are always trying new ways to improve their productivity."
<< I'm glad no list works so well for you. That's pretty much what I do at work and I always feel on top of things with it. It's a great way to work. >>
Agreed! 🙂
February 19, 2019 at 0:19 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Cricket -
<< It sounds like, you realized that the goal was shortening the list, rather than doing the things on it -- and that goal isn't urgent or important. >>
That's not really how it worked out. The shortening of the list, with Serial No-List, has turned out as an unexpected side benefit. The goal was more about ensuring I could keep a strong intuitive engagement with my whole context, all the time.
With Simple Scanning, I could maintain that intuitive engagement, as long as I could cycle through the list frequently. But I could not prevent the list from growing too long. At some point, I couldn't cycle fast enough, and would start to lose the intuition.
For me, the breakthrough came with the realization that we *already have* strong intuition for our overall context. We just need a way to give it clear expression. This is what Serial No-List does by starting with a blank page every day. We also need to ensure we don't create obstacles for our intuition, by introducing rules or structures that will interfere with our intuition. So Serial No-List has no obligatory rules. Even the few rules that it has can all be overruled, if needed, with no negative impact and no sense of breaking the rules.
But I still don't understand how it causes the list to be compressed. I'm pondering that...
<< One of the reasons, I think, is that my book is too large. >>
To me, this was always the attraction of those Midori traveler's notebooks, where you have several thin notebooks all banded together. It's easier to add new ones, and remove old ones when no longer need, but still keep one overall book that's roughly constant in size. I'm trying a cheap version by using Scotch tape to connect two Field Note books together. But it still feels too large. It's just too bulky in my pocket, and doesn't lay flat anymore.
<< Last week I finally declared a page "end/start of book" and recopied the old things to the 1st page of the new one. Seeing them all on one clean page rather than lurking in the shadows was reassuring. >>
I've considered doing the same. The list is compressed compared to any Long List system I've ever done, but there are still just a handful of pages in the older notebook that don't want to go away quite yet.
I keep resisting the idea, because I like the small bit of niggling pressure that the older pages give me. It seems just the right amount of pressure to keep my mind working in the background on those older tasks. But maybe I'll try your method here as an experiment and just see what happens.
<< Going through the entire old list every day is too often for me. >>
Me too. It is distracting from whatever is top-of-mind. I like reviewing it when nothing else stands out.
<< FVP on the entire list put too much pressure on things at the start of the list, old things that should have died rather than been dotted. ... This was when we were to work all the way back to the root task rather than re-scan from the last dot or erase all the dots frequently. >>
I think you may be getting FV confused with FVP. There is no requirement in FVP to go back to the beginning of the list. You can always add new dotted items to the end. In FVP, you had to finish the whole chain before you could dot any new items.
<< It started too many plates spinning. I got a lot done -- more than usual -- but not on the right things. >>
Yes, that was my experience with FVP. It was very responsive to a changing environment, and worked great when I had lots of new demands coming at me. It started feeling a bit aimless when there wasn't so much chaos, and would tend to process lots of trivia, chasing the end of the list rather than cycling through the things that were really my top concerns. It became a way of procrastinating on those top concerns.
<< I still use it informally on day-length lists and shorter >>
I use it quite often on my current page in Serial No-List, when I find several of the items are pulling at me. I just process them with the FVP algorithm. It's a great prioritization algorithm in general.
<< It sounds like, you realized that the goal was shortening the list, rather than doing the things on it -- and that goal isn't urgent or important. >>
That's not really how it worked out. The shortening of the list, with Serial No-List, has turned out as an unexpected side benefit. The goal was more about ensuring I could keep a strong intuitive engagement with my whole context, all the time.
With Simple Scanning, I could maintain that intuitive engagement, as long as I could cycle through the list frequently. But I could not prevent the list from growing too long. At some point, I couldn't cycle fast enough, and would start to lose the intuition.
For me, the breakthrough came with the realization that we *already have* strong intuition for our overall context. We just need a way to give it clear expression. This is what Serial No-List does by starting with a blank page every day. We also need to ensure we don't create obstacles for our intuition, by introducing rules or structures that will interfere with our intuition. So Serial No-List has no obligatory rules. Even the few rules that it has can all be overruled, if needed, with no negative impact and no sense of breaking the rules.
But I still don't understand how it causes the list to be compressed. I'm pondering that...
<< One of the reasons, I think, is that my book is too large. >>
To me, this was always the attraction of those Midori traveler's notebooks, where you have several thin notebooks all banded together. It's easier to add new ones, and remove old ones when no longer need, but still keep one overall book that's roughly constant in size. I'm trying a cheap version by using Scotch tape to connect two Field Note books together. But it still feels too large. It's just too bulky in my pocket, and doesn't lay flat anymore.
<< Last week I finally declared a page "end/start of book" and recopied the old things to the 1st page of the new one. Seeing them all on one clean page rather than lurking in the shadows was reassuring. >>
I've considered doing the same. The list is compressed compared to any Long List system I've ever done, but there are still just a handful of pages in the older notebook that don't want to go away quite yet.
I keep resisting the idea, because I like the small bit of niggling pressure that the older pages give me. It seems just the right amount of pressure to keep my mind working in the background on those older tasks. But maybe I'll try your method here as an experiment and just see what happens.
<< Going through the entire old list every day is too often for me. >>
Me too. It is distracting from whatever is top-of-mind. I like reviewing it when nothing else stands out.
<< FVP on the entire list put too much pressure on things at the start of the list, old things that should have died rather than been dotted. ... This was when we were to work all the way back to the root task rather than re-scan from the last dot or erase all the dots frequently. >>
I think you may be getting FV confused with FVP. There is no requirement in FVP to go back to the beginning of the list. You can always add new dotted items to the end. In FVP, you had to finish the whole chain before you could dot any new items.
<< It started too many plates spinning. I got a lot done -- more than usual -- but not on the right things. >>
Yes, that was my experience with FVP. It was very responsive to a changing environment, and worked great when I had lots of new demands coming at me. It started feeling a bit aimless when there wasn't so much chaos, and would tend to process lots of trivia, chasing the end of the list rather than cycling through the things that were really my top concerns. It became a way of procrastinating on those top concerns.
<< I still use it informally on day-length lists and shorter >>
I use it quite often on my current page in Serial No-List, when I find several of the items are pulling at me. I just process them with the FVP algorithm. It's a great prioritization algorithm in general.
February 19, 2019 at 0:44 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
My intuition about the best use of my time is good. Actually doing what it tells me is the problem. Messed up dopamine reward system.
My cheap Midori was a folded piece of cardboard and some elastic from the craft store. I found it didn't hold the small book firmly enough. That might have been because the elastic was too loose. I'll probably try again with pockets like DayTimer wirebound. I used that system in high school and it worked. Just lived in my purse and quietly did its job. (Thanks Mom!) (I miss the regular deadlines from those days.)
http://www.daytimer.ca/daytimerCA/browse/product/Antique+Vinyl+Planner+Cover+Pocket+Size/4884#zoom_item_0
Yep, I confused FV and FVP.
I find throwing out the old book rewarding. When I copy them is a good time to decide whether I really want to do them, and seeing them all together often gives me insights as to why I'm not doing them. Ten book recommendations. Five projects that begin with making one of the kids do something. I write the "date first written" which is also useful. I've been stalling on that project for a year?
My cheap Midori was a folded piece of cardboard and some elastic from the craft store. I found it didn't hold the small book firmly enough. That might have been because the elastic was too loose. I'll probably try again with pockets like DayTimer wirebound. I used that system in high school and it worked. Just lived in my purse and quietly did its job. (Thanks Mom!) (I miss the regular deadlines from those days.)
http://www.daytimer.ca/daytimerCA/browse/product/Antique+Vinyl+Planner+Cover+Pocket+Size/4884#zoom_item_0
Yep, I confused FV and FVP.
I find throwing out the old book rewarding. When I copy them is a good time to decide whether I really want to do them, and seeing them all together often gives me insights as to why I'm not doing them. Ten book recommendations. Five projects that begin with making one of the kids do something. I write the "date first written" which is also useful. I've been stalling on that project for a year?
February 19, 2019 at 19:36 |
Cricket
Cricket
Michael's craft store has inexpensive traveler's notebook style folders and cheap inserts to try the TN notebook system out. I'm going to have that a try and if I like it, get my son to make me a leather version following a YouTube video I found. It looks surprisingly easy to hand make a basic version of the folio with as many elastics as you want.
Well... I'm not sure about the efficacy of always trying new methods. Maybe if you're figuring out things in the beginning of a time management journey. The majority of people don't even want to look at doing things differently than they currently do. Which is perfectly fine - if your methods work. I've been working the same "quick list in the morning + add new items during the day" way at work for about 15 years and stay on top of everything so it's a winner for me.
I introduced 3 overwhelmed people with massive unread inboxes to the inbox zero / declare a backlog method in the last few months. Not one of them is doing anything differently today. It's bizarre. I'm beginning to suspect they like working overtime. 🤣
Today is a day off for me and I checked how many carry forwards I pulled forward on my AF condensed list today and it was only 2 things out of 23 items. I forgot to mention that if I think of something I want to do in future but absolutely not today, I write it on the page before the current day list. Same thing if I work on something but don't finish it and likely don't want to work on it again today, I don't rewrite on the next day's page, I write it on the previous page.
Well... I'm not sure about the efficacy of always trying new methods. Maybe if you're figuring out things in the beginning of a time management journey. The majority of people don't even want to look at doing things differently than they currently do. Which is perfectly fine - if your methods work. I've been working the same "quick list in the morning + add new items during the day" way at work for about 15 years and stay on top of everything so it's a winner for me.
I introduced 3 overwhelmed people with massive unread inboxes to the inbox zero / declare a backlog method in the last few months. Not one of them is doing anything differently today. It's bizarre. I'm beginning to suspect they like working overtime. 🤣
Today is a day off for me and I checked how many carry forwards I pulled forward on my AF condensed list today and it was only 2 things out of 23 items. I forgot to mention that if I think of something I want to do in future but absolutely not today, I write it on the page before the current day list. Same thing if I work on something but don't finish it and likely don't want to work on it again today, I don't rewrite on the next day's page, I write it on the previous page.
February 20, 2019 at 17:52 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2733307
But the way it has actually worked out was somewhat surprising (for me at least!).
For the last week or two, I've been very busy with lots of changes at work and at home. On many days, it didn't occur to me to scan the older pages -- the current no-list held all my attention. And when I did scan through the older pages, very few tasks got any action.
As a result, the number of older pages began to increase, and it started to niggle at me. There were too many pages. Too many large tasks lurking there that needed some kind of attention.
This is exactly what I was afraid might lead to a general system failure -- resistance to the system as a whole.
But here is what actually happened.
Since it was niggling at me, I just wrote it on today's page at the beginning of the day, together with everything else on my mind.
Yesterday I wrote "Archive is building up". I didn't do anything with it.
Today it was niggling even more. And the first thing on my list for today was "Backlog is building up."
And then suddenly, when I had a break of about 30 minutes, it just occurred to me so naturally to go scan through it and clean it up. I looked at the oldest pages, and tried to understand why those tasks were locked up, why they wouldn't move. It occurred to me there was really no good reason.
Two of them I realized were written in a way that was creating some resistance -- so I just broke them up into smaller tasks. Then I got several of those smaller tasks done.
Two more just needed a few minutes for me to stop and think, and do a little research. So I stopped and thought, and did a little research. They are done. The oldest two pages are now done.
I went through and cleaned up several other pages like that. It seemed like the most natural thing to do.
So I guess this might not be a problem after all. I just need to follow my own rules: start with a blank page every day, and write down whatever is on my mind. It worked out really well.
This was similar in some ways how I would handle "Weed List", when using a Long List system. But somehow this seemed much easier and more natural. I am trying to identify exactly what the difference is.
Maybe it's something like this. When I was working Long List, "Weed List" was a recurring maintenance task. There was a sense of obligation about doing it, in order to stay on top of my work. It felt like a chore. This would often cause me to resist and skip over that task, but sometimes it would "stand out" nonetheless. So I would do it, and sometimes it would work nicely, like it did today; but usually it would still just feel like a chore, and I'd end up feeling stressed about all the remaining things that weren't ready to be weeded. I knew these "extra" tasks were slowing down the Long List -- but they just weren't ready to be handled yet, or deleted or deferred.
Today it was different. It just felt natural. The fact of the lingering pages and tasks was causing me some stress. So it was on my mind. Like any other thing that might cause me some stress. So it arose naturally, without any external prompting, and found itself on my list. This got my mind working on it a little. I remember yesterday thinking, hm, maybe I can find a way to deal with this, not sure how yet. Off and on throughout the day, I'd have that thought, but never felt ready to do anything about it. Then today it just broke loose and got done.
There's still a feeling that there are a bit too many pages and tasks still lingering. But I feel like it will be easily handled. I feel like there is hope for the future. 🙂 I wonder what the next challenge will be. I am sure there will be more.
And maybe this challenge will resurface. I probably shouldn't make so much about a single day's success. But it just *felt so good*! (Weird, I know.)
Here's the funniest thing. At one point this morning, I was worried, what if Serial No-List doesn't work out -- what if this old-page accumulation problem turns out to be unsolvable? What system will I fall back to instead? And immediately I thought, I'll just have to start a new Serial No-List. LOL It just seems to be the most natural way for me to work.