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Discussion Forum > Best System for Small Business Owner

I run a small biz, no employees. Most important is to be agile and keep things from falling through the cracks.

I've used Simple Scanning before and FVP which I loved. I'd rather not split business and personal into two categories - I do, however, use 4-color pens. I use an A4 legal pad and work from back to front for lists and front to back for capture.

What system would y'all use to herd all these cats?
May 19, 2022 at 17:48 | Unregistered CommenterSbubs
Simple scanning or FVP feeding a daily 5 2 list perhaps?
May 19, 2022 at 21:51 | Unregistered CommenterGed
For separating work from personal: I've always liked Mark's idea of keeping both on the same page, but filling in the work tasks from the top of the page down, and personal tasks from bottom of the page up, then drawing a line where they meet.
May 20, 2022 at 14:56 | Unregistered CommenterMike Brown
I know what I would use, but that doesn't mean it is what you should use. A lot of it also depends on your workload and what that looks like in terms of the type of work. Here's a general principle that I focus on at least when I'm thinking about this stuff: what is the largest reliable unit of time in which you can go without having to be responsive to others? That is, what is the largest continual chunk of time you can consistently reserve for yourself to be without distractions?

My goal would be to maximize this chunk size. Obviously, things won't be perfect, but I prefer to think about designing my systems to maximize the amount of focused time I can have on the things that are of the highest impact for my work, which means trying to figure out how far I can push my schedule to ensure that I don't receive or can shut down/queue any potential interruptions rather than having to deal with them right away. Getting this chunk of time as large as possible can touch on practically all of your systems.

My personal view is that getting this to the point where you can pretty much go an entire day without having to shift your task list is probably ideal. This is very similar to the ideas found in Do It Tomorrow and other systems, such as Personal Kanban. It's all about cycle time and the like.

Of course, I happen to agree with James Clear that the single most powerful technique that I have ever found is "Do the most important thing first thing each day." I scale this up by using the Ivy Lee method, and it's the one that I've found most consistently effective. That's the way I would do things, but how well that will work will very much depend on how well you can manage the environment around you, as well as having a good idea of how to define "important".

I generally operate these days around the assumption that nothing is allowed to derail a day, but it can change what I do the next day provided that I have cleared space based on productivity today. This discounts *true* emergencies, but I make it a point not to allow false emergencies to be rewarded, even if that can sometimes be painful. And of course, it's never a perfect setup, but it means that I can pretty much go through the whole day and always have an answer to "what is the next best thing I should do right now?" without ever having to actually think or look at a long set of lists.

If your response/cycle time has to be shorter, then a lot of Mark's systems are designed around a much shorter task time and cycle time, which might suit your preferred method of working better.
May 20, 2022 at 18:25 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
Mike Brown:

<< I've always liked Mark's idea of keeping both on the same page, but filling in the work tasks from the top of the page down, and personal tasks from bottom of the page up, then drawing a line where they meet. >>

It wasn't my idea. It was proposed by someone else in the comments long ago. I can't remember who. Can anyone else remember who it was?
May 21, 2022 at 18:20 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Aaron,

This is the crux of the issue I've been thinking about forever. Having a solid chunk to do single top-down tasks that require focus (the One Thing) is so crucial.

But tracking various loose end tasks, capturing them, etc requires what seems like a whole other system.

Reconciling these has had be scratching my head since forever. Ooftah
May 23, 2022 at 18:01 | Unregistered CommenterSbubs
There is a simple reconciliation to your conundrum:

Set a scheduled time block to work on that One Thing. As many blocks as you need, though possibly not consecutive.

Use that Whole Other System outside of that time block.

re Mark's query, I don't have the answer but the key search phrase, for any historians out there, is stalactite/stalagmite.
May 23, 2022 at 19:13 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
The original 2009 post is MIA but there's a description here

http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2017/7/19/real-autofocus.html?currentPage=2
May 24, 2022 at 0:39 | Unregistered CommenterSbubs
I had a big, long discussion about state transitions and understanding how it's all the same and all you have to do is figure out how often and when you want to switch between Clarifying, Capturing, and Engaging with work, but then I realized it could be much simpler. It's easy to capture everything down. After you do that, you just have to figure out which things you want to put into daily habits/checklists/routines that you will do in a specific order, each day, the same way, all the time, and which things are going to be the things represent unique tasks or non-recurring stuff that you aren't going to make a routine. Then you just have to ask yourself, if you could only pick one thing from among these things on this list to do, and nothing else got done the rest of the day, what would you pick? Then assume this one thing is done and repeat the process. That's how you figure out what is important. That could be a little loose end that needs to be tied up, and it could be something big.

Now, all you have to do is decide how often and when you want to do that process throughout the day. For me, I basically repeat that process six times at one point in the evening to set up my next day (that's the core of Ivy Lee's method). For FVP, you are doing this when you stop doing what you were doing, and you essentially have an algorithm for arriving at this question. Pretty much all of Mark's long list systems are just different ways of arriving at this question with a different set of inputs and at different frequencies throughout the day, though most of them always trigger when you are done working on something you were doing, and the then either fall into the kind that stack up choices (FV, Next Hour, FVP) and those that pick a single thing at a time (AF, Simple Scanning).

There's really not much more to it, at its heart.
May 24, 2022 at 4:02 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
If only it were that easy in practice, as just a matter of picking one or more things and doing them, but too often there are too many things and the decision is overwhelming, or else things get overlooked and fail to complete. A competent strategy is needed. Ivy Lee’s methods of just doing the 6 best things is a great idea, provided nothing bad happens because you didn’t get to 7. And you didn’t forget one that should be among the 6. And you aren’t paralyzed by indecision.

AutoFocus and friends try a different approach where it’s not pick one thing and get that done. The strategy of Little and Often is crucial to getting through a long list. Mark always illustrates this rapid task switching in his reports wherein I figure the average span Spent focusing on a single thing is 10 minutes, though some are longer and some shorter. I don’t think I can pull off that pace myself. I am not so adept and changing focus and need to stick with many tasks for longer. This I now understand is why some of Mark’s ideas proved viable for me, and some didn’t. It’s about which supported a slower pace of switching. But also provided a way to be on top of the whole during that slower pace.

So that is my key: enabling me to be aware of and choose the relevant tasks and do those, without being overwhelmed by picking too much or leaving too much festering.
May 24, 2022 at 11:55 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Aaron, that's the best and most succinct encapsulation I've heard of the problem I'm trying to solve. Capture, decide if it's recurring or not, and choose the most important one-off tasks.

That third step is itself a recurring task and it looks like you do it nightly. My thought was to do it weekly, monthly etc as well to choose the biggest rocks, the large attention chunks that are progressively working towards a chosen goal. On the other end of the spectrum is Mark's doing it every ten minutes or so, little and often.

Infrequent reviews use type 2 logical thinking. Very frequent reviews use the power of intuition. That's the barbell. It seems like a dichotomy of linear progress and nonlinear progress. The line and the circle. Attention on a single thing versus a net of connected tasks worked together.

Q: do these two types of tasks go in the same list/system at the end? Currently for me one goes in the calendar (line) and one in a list (circle).


Alan, being on top of everything while choosing the relevant task is definitely the goal. Having the time overhang for a chosen task be unknown/spontaneous and incoming tasks being unpredictable makes it tricky to execute longer attention blocks in a reliable way. So again, maybe a long/short attention barbell strategy?
May 24, 2022 at 17:22 | Unregistered CommenterSbubs
Sbubs: <<Infrequent reviews use type 2 logical thinking. Very frequent reviews use the power of intuition. That's the barbell. It seems like a dichotomy of linear progress and nonlinear progress. The line and the circle. Attention on a single thing versus a net of connected tasks worked together.>>

I expect this paragraph means a lot to you, but I trip over "type 2 logical thinking", linear progress, nonlinear progress, line, circle, attention on a ...net of connected tasks worked together.

Now... spontaneous time overhang? Attention barbell strategy?

I don't know what books you've been reading, but clearly I read very different ones. I have no idea what you are getting at.

Executing longer time blocks is a matter of planning I think. You can't be on call 24/7, and it's likely possible to plan even a 90 minute block during business hours that is no-interruption, unless you are solo and have customers spontaneously showing up.
May 24, 2022 at 18:46 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Alan, sorry if I wasn't clear. In a nutshell I'm trying to ask whether planning for 90-minute blocks and little-and-often 10-minute ones are on a continuum or two completely different things. Maybe one uses critical thinking and the other a more intuitive approach. And if so, maybe it needs a two-pronged system.

The idea of barbells comes from Nassim Taleb, type 1/2 thinking comes from Thinking Fast And Slow, and linear/critical/vertical vs nonlinear/lateral thinking comes from psychology. Maybe it's a right brain/left brain thing but at the end of the day it seems hard to survive without both approaches together.

Clear as mud? :D I find planning 90-minute blocks easy, but executing them to be pretty hard! Intuitively working through a list is so smooth in comparison. But I wonder whether you can make progress on a big 5-year goal intuitively alone.
May 24, 2022 at 20:24 | Unregistered CommenterSbubs
Clearer except for one bit:
<<A Barbell strategy, a la Taleb consists of making sure that 90% of your capital is safe, by investing it in Risk-Free assets, which cover from inflation. On the other hand use 10%, or the remaining capital for very risky investments.>>

So two fat ends and nothing in the middle. No idea what this has to do with time management.

<<I wonder whether you can make progress on a big 5-year goal intuitively alone.>>

In my experience, no. Others may have other experiences.
May 24, 2022 at 21:19 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
I don't think it's a dichotomy. To me, it's all the same. It's just a matter of specific contexts that you want to apply for things, and what things fit where. Some people like a very stark contrast in different types of tasks (90 minute blocks and list churning), but that's not the only way to cut the cake.

Specifically, you can divide a larger task up based on how much time you work on it at a time, or based on individual sub-tasks with specifically defined outcomes. Mark's systems allow for both strategies to be used simultaneously, and you can use your intuition on which strategy to use. Since I've found consistently that working in a defined block of time is the worst way for me to work, I focus almost entirely on breaking tasks down into subtasks with defined outcomes.

So, let's say that some task or goal is obviously too big for me to complete within a given window I care about (often that's a 3 - 6 hour window of focused time). It might even get on to my list as something I need to do. Well, if I'm running an Ivy Lee list and I get to that item, I should "complete" that task before I move on, but that task could take days or weeks to complete. Obviously, that won't work. In that case, I could take two different approaches. I could say, well, I'll just work on it for some time each day until it is done. I don't find that this works well for me at all. Instead, I do the second approach, which is that I work on the task until I have fully clarified and understood what I am doing well enough that I can break the task down into some set of smaller parts that need to be handled, and that can be done independently. At that point, those tasks go into my capture system as separate tasks, and I can consider that larger task done. Then I can continue on with my list. Often I will work for some time on the idea to get as clarified as I can within a given amount of time that feels good as well.

This means that working on a given big outcome will get broken progressively down into smaller and smaller outcomes as I continue to work on it until I get to the point where the outcomes can be accomplished within the timeframe of a day or less, at which point I usually just finish them outright.

I find that doing it this way gives me constant senses of accomplishment, and helps me to manage taking on big goals (that is, break it down into small goals). That's a really common strategy. But some people much prefer the other way, to work a little bit at a time on a given thing, with the boundaries between sub-tasks left more nebulous. Even then, some people working a little bit at a time on a thing can get a sense of burnout if the goal is very larger, which is where having small daily goals can help (authors who use word counts are examples of this).

So, in the end, to me, I don't separate these things into lots of different categories. To me, they are all just tasks on my daily list. I just work with them, and sometimes that means breaking them down, and sometimes that means just doing them, but at least in the system they are all the same thing, and I don't use other categorizations, such as making one of them my "Current Inititative" or saving some tasks for my "Deep Work sessions" or large blocks of times. Those are all strategies that others find helpful, so if they help, then go for that, but they aren't strictly necessary either.

With respect to the calendar, I mostly just have a calendar of my appointments and then I have a list for each month that gets carried into my "feeder list" when the new month rolls around. This means I can defer some tasks that aren't ready to be done yet to another month. Other than that, pretty much everything else is just going into the capture/feeder list or into my main lists/routines. Thus, to me, I don't separate out this kind of stuff. I agree with Mark that "it's all important at some point" or that general sentiment.

Keep in mind that planning in the sense of setting and intention to do something in the future is always easy. It's one of the ways your mind can offload burdens, because the future is always discounted. It's no surprise that you find planning 90 minute blocks easy, but doing them difficult. It's worth spending significant amounts of your energy on solving the problem of doing something, rather than spending too much energy on improving planning, IMO, because I've always found the doing part the hardest. So, IMO, it's better energy spent if you focus on getting better at taking action on a thing rather than getting better at planning when that thing should be done.

A great protocol for 90 minute work blocks I've seen is from the Focus and Action group, which basically suggests:

1. Clear out your environment.
2. Set the goal and why it's important to you.
3. Set a timer.
4. Let yourself either do your task/goal or be bored and do nothing, but don't do anything other than that.

I find that last part really a key insight. Giving yourself permission to do nothing inside of a 90 minute block is a powerful release, and it can help drive your mind towards the task in ways that other techniques don't.
May 27, 2022 at 19:36 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
Aaron:

<< Let yourself either do your task/goal or be bored and do nothing, but don't do anything other than that. >>

That reminds me of the instruction I give when working off "The School Timetable" which is "Do nothing except work in the work periods, and anything but work in the the rest periods." But I didn't think of specifying that "nothing except work" meant that you could do nothing or you could work.

I can think of several projects i have which could benefit from that approach - so I must try it out. Thanks, Aaron.
May 28, 2022 at 10:27 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I am in concord with Aaron that “work on key business task for 90 minutes” doesn’t work, if that task is not a 90 minute task. If I want to be most effective within that block of time, I must be very specific about what I want to accomplish in that period. Having broken down “key business task” from a who-knows-how-long task until I have a project that takes about 90 minutes, then I have something that works: “work for about 90 minutes to complete specific subtask”. And then I work more or less than 90 minutes, but my focus is getting this achieved.

Meanwhile if it turns out to only take 30 minutes, I will use the extra time to plan the next project. If it turns out to take 3hours, I might use that 3 hours if I can, or I might split off a bit and have a task defined for the next block of time.

What I can’t do is just “work on this 90 minute task a little now a little later”. That will turn it into a 900 minute task if I tried that approach because difficult thinking can’t be accomplished 10 minutes at a time with interruptions all over.

And as stated at the outset, I can’t “work on unbounded task for 90 minutes”. That will turn into getting 1/3 accomplished as compared to having a definite task over that period, because clarity makes work easier and more motivating and focused.
May 28, 2022 at 14:30 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Mark:

<<But I didn't think of specifying that "nothing except work" meant that you could do nothing or you could work.>>

The biggest challenge I've found with something like this is making sure that you have set up your environment to be suitably non-stimulating that you can actually follow through on the "be bored" part. It's easy to whittle away at your time doing "nothing" when in fact you've let yourself be engaged with all manner of daydreaming or stimulating observation of the world around you, such as looking out at the sun and sky, or watching birds, or even just admiring some trinket that you kept on a shelf in reach of your space. The protocol above insists that you make your environment as non-stimulating as possible so that the boredom can actually help feed into your task that you are trying to focus on. Most people have environments that are more stimulating than that, which could undermine the effectiveness of the technique.
May 29, 2022 at 5:46 | Registered CommenterAaron Hsu
There’s no possible environment where my mind cannot wander to other things. Also my big tasks are computer based and require searching the internet for particular answers. Good luck devising a version of that which has no stimulation!

This adds to the reasons to have a well-defined outcome for your 90 minute block. a) it provides a target to focus on, and b) if you do wander, you have some concrete objective that you know is slipping away.
May 29, 2022 at 12:07 | Registered CommenterAlan Baljeu
Aaron, what a great encapsulation of the problem. It's possible to intuitively choose how to chop up a task into smaller ones depending on your personality.

Cal Newport talks about relying on his "planning flow" from quarterly to monthly to weekly to timeblocked daily plans in order to keep himself accountable to timelines. He keeps a to-do list in Trello, but "most of the projects that move the needle in my career — working on a research paper, writing a major article — never get discretized into bite-size actions on a list. I instead treat them with the level of intention that their formidable difficulty deserves."

It seems like tasks vs projects is a distinction made for him mainly by something being ambiguous and/or requiring challenging and uninterrupted focus. I wonder if he could pull this off using a single long list system

Tiago Forte says "A project is something you can’t do in one sitting"

But you could still break it down into smaller targets intelligently - for writing it'd be word counts, sections, time spent, or some other metric. With the call option of just hunkering down if it's harder than expected.

I wonder if using a long-list system the equivalent which relies on intuition could be just spending time cultivating your vision for quarterly results, then your intuition will have something to point you towards.


https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2021/01/02/projects-vs-tasks-a-critical-distinction-in-productive-scheduling/
June 6, 2022 at 17:36 | Unregistered CommenterSbubs