Get Everything Done

The traffic here has almost come to a halt. I guess everyone is busy and AF4 is working well! Mark, how are you doing? What are you up to these days?

Best wishes,
-David

Several posts every day isn't quite "halt". I notice Mark updated the To Think About box.

Okay -- not exactly halt....but is has been slower than usual....and was just wondering what Mark was up to....

-David

I'm betting AF4 has done the trick for most folks and he's figuring out a way to present it in a book/video format to make some $.

Just a guess...

It is an internet thing. There has to be a critical mass of posts to keep things flowing. Notice that when a bunch of us post then lots of others chime in. When there is not enough going on to interest us, the others don't have anything to respond to. It is self-perpetuating. If one or two of us stop chattering about the GED program, things will fall very silent again.

I think your. He's tested something out on a willing audience and now its time to make some money.

The ride's been great. Suspect it's over.

While I do think the ride may be over as far as time management is concerned, as many people (me excluded) have selected AF4 as the ultimate. there is much terrain yet to be covered. For example, the Dreams book which doesn't get much play on here. It is great to be able to objectively choose your activities as in AF4, but what about selecting goals in the first place? What about the Dreams concept of self-coaching?

TK: Indeed, "Dreams" was an intriguing book, it resonated with me far more than many of the other stuff out there. The self coaching, the what's better list, the present reality - all very original and fresh thinking in a sea of SMART goal-oriented material we see all the time.

I too hope there is a revival in this area. My coach needs coaching!

I for one need to spend less time obsessing about "how to achieve" and spend more time "actually achieving" at the moment that actually means working out "what" it is I want to achieve. The Internet now eats away as much of my time as the TV used to.

This has been an amazing forum. I learned a lot here and AF4 is a great tool.

BUT: I have the feeling we are working at the "low end" of things. What about dreams of the great life, inspiring goals, how to find and clarify goals etc.? This is FAR more important imho than any time management "technique" (while no doubt useful).

Renfrew

Hi all
It's possible that Mark has grown weary of AF discussions or time management period but he's too kind to shoo us off! *blush*
I pray that there's no health issue.
learning as I go

Hi,
Even if Mark's participation is reduced, aren't there still things to discuss? Software implementations, tweaks, support for new users...

I miss the posts from some users that are missing: ChristineB, Jacqueline and others (and of course, Mark's himself).

I agree -- and Mark -- are you there? Why no comment?

-David

Hi Walter - thanks! You made my day. :-)

I'm not using AF4 or any version of AF at the moment - but am using many of the principles - standing out, little and often, etc. and DIT (w/current initiatives on steroids) - so there hasn't been much for me to talk about as you guys have gone into technical stuff about lists and such. And I've been super busy and (mostly) super motivated, I guess. I'm still keeping lists, but not the same way.

Like Renfrew and Anon (Again) above, I'm more into the "what" am I doing, rather than the "how".

There's always the danger for me of getting better, stronger, faster at stuff that really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. So I've been playing around with methods of putting more emphasis on what's important to me and less of what isn't. Although it shouldn't be, it really is kind of difficult. ;-)

Welcome back, Jacqueline. Yes, I suspect AF 4.5 may deal with giving a little more directed attention to major projects. I am still putting everything into AF4, though Mike and others have dealt with this issue (correct me if I'm wrong, Mike) by filtering what actually gets in to the list in the first place, so the lawn mower runs faster.

Perhaps AF4.5 might be a two tiered system, with most of the time spent processing things in a primary tier. Or a notebook with two ends, with a mechanism for copying primary tasks from the everything end to the executable end.

Is anyone else finding it is gradually taking longer to draw the next line, or is it just me?

I hasten to add that I really like AF4, and it truly appeals to me. I just do not yet feel it is Nirvana. But for that one supposedly has to sit still and beam. A different concept.

Laurence & Jacqueline : All very important and good points, definitely. I don't have difficulty drawing the line, and have settled to using AF2 which deals very nicely for the faster pace I am faced with. If the back portions are not adequately dealt with, the threat of dismissal of a large block of tasks does its work in maintaining my discipline.

The problem I do have is wondering whether I have a compass. Am I doing the task in accordance with my desired goals? I know these are questions I should pose in AF itself, and allow my thoughts to develop over time. I don't spend enough time working on the concepts in "Dreams", I know that.

But I'd rather just live with this angst and allowing AF to bring this up for me to work on, rather than tweaking the system drastically to fit any self perceived notions of a lack in my daily work.

Good Morning Laurence,

<<< Welcome back, Jacqueline. <<<

YES! We've missed you!

>>> Yes, I suspect AF 4.5 may deal with giving a little more directed attention to major projects. I am still putting everything into AF4, though Mike and others have dealt with this issue (correct me if I'm wrong, Mike) by filtering what actually gets in to the list in the first place, so the lawn mower runs faster. <<<

Basically, you are right, but it comes down to terminology. I have settled on putting EVERYTHING in my AF book, but is that really AF if I immediately delete things ... which I do. Or does it become AF once the first deltions take place? I'm not sure we need an AF 4.5. I think it becomes a question of using the system in the way that works best for you.

I like Mark's analogy to a camera. You really do have to decide what you want to take the picture of before you let the camera do it's magic and adjust the focus for you. I do not think that has to be built into AF as we know it now. I think you do that FIRST, and then use AF to execute.

It is the same with scheduling. As I have said, I cull out urgent items and run them from a list EXTERNAL to AF, then do AF when I'm not attending to them. Can AF do that for me? Well, not for me, but obviously for Mark and others. But I have no angst about it. The point is to not keep a system "pure" but to make the system ultimately vanish because it is just the way things get done for you.

>>> Perhaps AF4.5 might be a two tiered system, with most of the time spent processing things in a primary tier. Or a notebook with two ends, with a mechanism for copying primary tasks from the everything end to the executable end. <<<

Then my advise would be to just do that for yourself it it seems like it would work. If you want to know what works for me:

- Weekly review my short term goals in the context of my intermediate and long term goals,

- Derive a list of weekly goals from that review,

- Derive a list of tasks to accomplish those goals,

- Block time in the upcoming week to work on those tasks,

- Each day review my blocked time and urgent items and plan my day,

- Work that plan,

- When I think of things put them on the AF list,

- Decide if they WILL get done before the next review period,

- if not, delete them right then (to get them out of the road)

- Work the AF list when I'm not working my blocked time or urgent tasks.

As you can see, my direction comes from the weekly review. My focus comes from my task list first, my scheduled blocks of time second, then my AF list third.

>>> I hasten to add that I really like AF4, and it truly appeals to me. I just do not yet feel it is Nirvana. But for that one supposedly has to sit still and beam. A different concept. >>>

LOL ;-) I'd have to say that MY system is "nirvana". That is to say that I've fine tuned it and it works like a charm for me and my context. Were I suddenly to change my life style, I'd guess that my way of working would change to accommodate that.

Point taken, Mark!

Question for me remains, how to make sure you spend some time thinking about what your own "right direction" is. I've found that the dismissal process in AF1-4 helps a lot to sift out the stuff that's the wrong direction; but I've still got to figure out a way to think more or less systematically about what my right direction is. I've tried writing down goals periodically in the past, but reviewing them was always very discouraging so I stopped doing that. Any pointers on how to go about formulating goals, and stick to using them as compass, would be very helpful!

Pick one goal, put it on your list. Work on the goal as AF brings you to it.

Work on that goal consists of: (1) making sure that's really your goal, (2) thinking (planning) about how to get to that goal. This planning will be in a separate goal-planning page/folder. (3) Adding initial tasks relating to your goal into the AF list. The goal itself can be taken off the list now if the tasks cover it.

When you finish a goal-related task, think if there's another goal-related task that needs to be added to the list, and add it.

Nicole,

Why has reviewing been discouraging? I would find goal review discouraging if I did not do it weekly, for example. The point of reviewing goals is to make course corrections when you can do something to change the outcome. I found that only weekly reviews makes sense.

What gives goals power is the reason you set them. So it helps if you know exactly why you want your goals and to keep that reason right in front of you. An example, perhaps?

Long Term Goal: "Climb Mt. Everest.

Reason: "To see the world from one of the highest places and feel the sense of excitement that comes from doing that."

Intermediate Goal: "Climb Mt. McKinley"

Short Term Goals: (One Month to One Year)
- Find Schools
- Join Health Club
- Buy Climbing Gear

Next Weeks Tasks:
- Call Health Clubs
- Buy Climbing Books
- Subscribe to Climbing Magazines

So I'm set for the next week. A week goes by and I review, Suppose I did none of my tasks this week. What is the worst that I'll feel? I'll feel only slightly disspaointed and I've not done irreversable damage to my goals because it is only three small tasks and one week lost. Very recoverable. I feel more motivated than ever.

Contrast that with not breaking it down to small tasks and short term goals and reviewing only monthly or yearly. Then I would feel very badly because the loss would be greater.

So my suggestion is that you pick ONE lifetime goal and break it down until you reach the one week tasks stage then review weely and each weekly review see the progress you have made and create more tasks to help you get to your short term goal.

If you get more ambitious, work through the exercises in this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Control-Your-Time-Life-Signet/dp/0451167724/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257861408&sr=1-1

I've been using AF4, consistently, for a few weeks now. I have no desire to read another TM book, and/or adopt another TM program. I can't recall the last time I felt this way. The only question that remains is, will "... will I have the courage to take actions on my convictions?." - Dr. M Bowen

Hi Nicole,

It sounds like you're getting discouraged because you think your progress *should* be further ahead? Or you're comparing yourself to the ideal maybe?

I think most people overestimate how much progress we can make on goals and still have a normal life. Part of that's probably related to media etc. - ie. people on the Biggest Loser can lose 20 pounds a week, so I can't be happy with my measly one pound.

I think Alan's way of adding tasks to the list above can work really well for some people. I know that I work a little better having one major focus for the month or a "season". Like many people who write a novel in a month on nanowrimo - they gear their every spare moment to writing that book.

I'd start my list by watching the movie "The Bucket List" - the whole thing is posted on youtube.

Then I'd follow a simple system like this:
http://www.squidoo.com/100things

And see what really pops out at you to add to your AF list. The one that makes you go WOW, I'd LOVE to do that. You could also find a picture or piece of writing that represents that to go in your book.

I wouldn't focus on the measuring myself against where I think I should be then as long as I'm following a good process. How do you really know how far you *should* get if you've never done it before?

Forgot to mention this is also a neat concept of 101 things in 1001 days:

http://www.dayzeroproject.com/
:

Jacqueline said >>I wouldn't focus on the measuring myself against where I think I should be then as long as I'm following a good process.<<

that's the problem I have with SMART goals where T is the time - if you set a goal to do X by date Y, it's not hard to see when it's not going to happen by that time for whatever reason. So you change the date to Y+3months. Or the goal to X-15%. Either way you set up the mindset that you "never" reach your goals, so why bother? (and by 'you' I mean a generic you, not anyone specifically)

Wow, thanks for all the replies!

My problem with reviewing goals is that because I don't review them regularly, it's disappointing to see how little progress I've made when I do review them. Or sometimes I've even totally abandoned a goal without realizing it at the time. That suggested to me that I haven't been writing done my "right" goals, but as I already wrote, for some reason I never get around to really thinking about my "right" goals. Making it a task in AF hasn't helped so far, probably because I'm a bit uncomfortable thinking about goals, and not knowing how to start makes me skip over the task "review goals" until it's dismissed. Maybe I should just have a go at one or two methods suggested here, and put those in AF to see how that works out.

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions, I'll post back here about my progress!

The Pomodoro Technique + Problem Solving 101 (Ken Wanatabe) = powerful combination.

Hey Nicole,

Start small! If you have more than a very few goals going at once , you'll inevitably find you aren't making much progress on any of them. Read the Power of Less blog/book referenced in another thread. It's very good about goals.

What I learned from that: Look at all your potential goals and choose the One you really want to do first. If it's a big goal, define smaller subgoals. Make sure you truly get started towards that goal.

Feel free to pursue more than one goal, but if you want to see progress, don't do too many at once.

Hmmm....maybe so....guess things have sped up here considerably....

-David

Well, it WAS quiet here, but then this goal stuff started up again... it brings the yappy ones out of the woodwork. :-)

Nicole, I really like this concept of sprinting towards a goal:

http://geniuscatalyst.com/geniusblog/2009/07/mnct-668-the-art-of-sprinting/

Like Alan says, I would just pick one - for one thing it's so much easier to focus on one goal and make sure steps towards it stay on your list. If you're actively working on it, you shouldn't really have to review your progress if that makes you uncomfortable. It will take as long as it takes, and that's okay.

There are also some goals that I have that I like to do on auto-pilot. If you set up a structure to your life that they just happen automatically, this should be easy. A certain amount of money going to savings, a time to exercise, Friday night date nights, etc.

The other thing I've found is that once you've written things down, your "reticular activating system" will go to work for you to "filter in" opportunities. On my goals list 5 years ago was to live in a house with a library and a wood burning fireplace. I'm not a believer in the law of attraction, but not too long after writing that down, I did find a house that had both of those features - in the same room. Would I have found it without defining some of the things I wanted? Maybe.

I think of listing goals as something really fun to do every once in awhile and it at least gives you a starting point, even if you don't actively manage them. Even if you do something as simple as list the places that you'd like to see one day, the next time you plan your vacation, instead of just mindlessly choosing a place to go based on where your friends would go or the ads you get from travel places online, you can instead look at your list at all the places *you* REALLY want to see and choose something from there.

All the best and good luck!

Lillian, I totally agree with you on the time thing with respect to goals. So many of my goals are things I've never done before or have factors somewhat beyond my control, so how can the time to complete them be estimated?

It reminds me of when my oldest kid was little and I would look at the medical books for the time he *should* start walking or talking and I'd be stressed out when it didn't happen on schedule. But it happened when it happened. I could have saved myself some anxiety by not worrying about it.

I think that any time that you have a "deadline" for things that aren't meant to be deadlined, it can be demotivating. Yeah, if you're training for a marathon at a certain date, it's probably a good thing to have sub-goals that are broken down over time, but for most things, whether you get it done in one month or three, what's the big deal?

Mark:

<<Nineteen posts on this thread so far today. Is it time to rename it?>>

It's because we're all so happy to see you back. That right, everyone?

What is this thing called retirement, anyway?

>>> that's the problem I have with SMART goals where T is the time - if you set a goal to do X by date Y, it's not hard to see when it's not going to happen by that time for whatever reason. So you change the date to Y+3months. Or the goal to X-15%. Either way you set up the mindset that you "never" reach your goals, so why bother? (and by 'you' I mean a generic you, not anyone specifically) <<<

We beat this idea to death some time ago, IIRC. The problem comes in when you see a goal as something static. A static goal is not all that useful. Feedback is an essential component of any goal seeking system. Goal seeking systems are a negative feedback loop. They contain a function where the distance to the goal is measured and the system is corrected to keep it on course. Without that, a goal is pointless.

And that is exactly why goals fail ... no feedback. We set a goal and don't review our progress and so wander off course. If you were to drive your car to a distant city and, when you started out, set out in the right direction then went to sleep ... well, I doubt you'd make it. Being just a little frustrated with lack of progress is not the problem ... it is an essential part of the solution. IOW, don't shoot the messenger. ;-)

Nicole,

>>> My problem with reviewing goals is that because I don't review them regularly, it's disappointing to see how little progress I've made when I do review them. <<<

So there is where I'd suggest you start ... WHY don't you review them regularly? I suspect that most often we don't review often is because we are not really committed to the goals in the first place. Maybe we have heard that we SHOULD have goals and so gin up some that are meaningless for us and the only thing we get from a review is guilt ... over not having done something we did not want to do in the first place.

Consider what I said earlier, and Alan just said here: start with only a single goal. The Alan Lakiein book describes how to completely analyze your desires and lay out a path for your entire life. That works for some but might intimidate others. If it intimidates you, then start with something you feel you really want that will take maybe a year or less. Then break that down into shorter subgaols then to tasks which can be accomplished in one week. Then in a week, review and set more week long tasks. If you missed the target for that week, do some real soul searching. Put the breaks on ... maybe even go on a retreat in necessary ... and find out WHY! Without learning why you are not succeeding in taking at least ONE small step toward what is most important to your life, you'll never have what is most important in your life.

>>> Or sometimes I've even totally abandoned a goal without realizing it at the time. That suggested to me that I haven't been writing done my "right" goals, but as I already wrote, for some reason I never get around to really thinking about my "right" goals. <<<

I believe that is correct. Try that Lakein exercise then. Basically it consists of writing down, as quickly as possible, everything that comes into your head in answer to several questions. Questions such as: "If there were no limits, what would I want to do with the rest of my life?" or "If I only had six months to live, how would I spend it?" The key is to keep writing as fast as you can without censoring ideas because they are "impossible" or "silly". Then, after waiting a day or so, going back to the list and analyzing it, grouping things into categories and trying to uncover what really lies beneath all of what you wrote. You WILL see some important yearnings. Those become your REAL goals.

>>> Making it a task in AF hasn't helped so far, probably because I'm a bit uncomfortable thinking about goals, and not knowing how to start makes me skip over the task "review goals" until it's dismissed. Maybe I should just have a go at one or two methods suggested here, and put those in AF to see how that works out. <<<

Accept failure as part of the process. Failure is the feedback we need to correct our course so that we can succeed. Failure is not something to be ashamed or even avoided. Paradoxically, failure is essential to achieve success.

Hi Mike,

>>>
So there is where I'd suggest you start ... WHY don't you review them regularly? I suspect that most often we don't review often is because we are not really committed to the goals in the first place.
>>>

Right on! I'll have a look at the Lakiein book, thanks for the suggestion.

Mike -
>>We beat this idea to death some time ago, IIRC. <<
Sorry about the resurrection, I'll go through and see if I can find the older posts.

>>The problem comes in when you see a goal as something static. A static goal is not all that useful. Feedback is an essential component of any goal seeking system. Goal seeking systems are a negative feedback loop. They contain a function where the distance to the goal is measured and the system is corrected to keep it on course. Without that, a goal is pointless.<<

But since we're here... If I set a goal of "Be in NewYork City this Saturday at 9am" I can spend the week planning the trip, packing, etc etc. Then sometimes comes up on Friday which makes "Saturday at 9am" unlikely. I change the goal to "Be in NewYork City this Sunday at 9am" Goal set. Feedback received. Goal changed.

But the original goal was not achieved. I am not in NYC Satuday.

If the time doesn't matter (and in this case, let's say it really doesn't matter what day I arrive in NYC) why does a date need to be part of a goal? Does a goal really need a date?

Jacqueline -
>>I think that any time that you have a "deadline" for things that aren't meant to be deadlined, it can be demotivating.<<

Exactly - I need to get my head/motivation around this one. Yes, I want to redecorate my house (step 1 - tell dh :) ) but whether it's finished by Jan 2010 or Jan 2012 or whatever doesn't really matter. Bobb Biehr (I think that's the spelling) wrote a book about solving problems instead of setting goals. I think I need to re-read that and see if I can incorporate some of his ideas.

I think the difference between the two - Jan 2010 vs 2012 or 2020 - is the "HAD TO" part.

In Lillian's example, there is no "have to", although there is a "want to", so turning 'nice to have' into 'have to have' can be demotivating because she's interested and possibly committed, but it's not necessary.

Same thing goes if she doesn't HAVE to be in NYC, just wants to be.

That's just my take anyway.

Hopefully not when the Grim Reaper calls if you've put it on your AF list. :-)

But for her redecorating, she doesn't have to put a target date of estimated completion on it if she just works on it continually and it's done when it's done (and sometimes those kinds of goals are never officially *done* anyway). I don't think most people would or should put an estimated completion date on a goal like that unless they were selling the house or having a family reunion at a certain time or other external event.

I could have a goal of $1M net worth by X retirement date but then the market takes a downturn. If it does, I'll likely be upset that I didn't make the date. But if I made a goal of $1M net worth and I don't have a date to pull the plug, I'll just keep on working until I hit the net worth target. Yes, I'd still be upset if the market took a downturn but I haven't beaten myself up for not making the predetermined date. I'd probably have a vague timeframe in mind for when I think I could achieve it based on a savings rate and normal rate of market returns but I'd probably just revise my target net worth down by the amount that I lost and figure out alternative ways to save more so that I could live without having quite $1M. That's the X-15% (or given the 2008 market, X-25%).

Lillian, the author you're thinking of is Bobb Biehl.

Lillian,

>>> But since we're here... If I set a goal of "Be in NewYork City this Saturday at 9am" I can spend the week planning the trip, packing, etc etc. Then sometimes comes up on Friday which makes "Saturday at 9am" unlikely. I change the goal to "Be in NewYork City this Sunday at 9am" Goal set. Feedback received. Goal changed.

But the original goal was not achieved. I am not in NYC Satuday. <<<

Calling it "the original goal" implies that you are still thinking of goals as static.

But more than that, I see two other practical problems. Firstly, if you check for feedback on Friday for a goal set for Ssaturday, you are not taking feedback soon enough to affect the outcome. If you set the goal on Monday, you should be checking Monday evening to see what you have accomplished, then Tuesday a couple of times, then Wednesday, etc. Doing that will not leave you revising the goal at the last minute. It will allow you (and this is the second point) to revise your ACTIONS so that you can ACHIEVE the goal you set. IOW, the point is not to move the deadline ever forward, but to alter your actions to achieve the goal. You are seeing "feedback" as altering the goal rather than the actions which will allow the goal to be achieved. When the captain of the ship sees that he is off course (or these days, when his computerized nav system does) he does not abandon his goal of getting to port on time ... he moves his rudder and adjusts the power output of his engines. And he does not wait until he is an hour away from docking to take his position and find he is nearer Greenland than NYC ;-)

>>> If the time doesn't matter (and in this case, let's say it really doesn't matter what day I arrive in NYC) why does a date need to be part of a goal? Does a goal really need a date? <<<

A goal needs a date, not because the date itself is in any way significant, but to allow us to measure progress. IOW two goals:

1) Make $1M
2) Make $1M by January 2011

The first is not considered a goal because there is no point at which you can measure it and say if you have achieved it or not. If January 2050 comes and goes and I ask you if you made your $1M you can truthfully say: "Not yet but I will." So there is no accountability. No way to say that you are on or off course, thus no way to correct your course ... because you don't know if it needs correction or not.

>>I think that any time that you have a "deadline" for things that aren't meant to be deadlined, it can be demotivating.<<

Exactly - I need to get my head/motivation around this one. Yes, I want to redecorate my house (step 1 - tell dh :) ) but whether it's finished by Jan 2010 or Jan 2012 or whatever doesn't really matter. <<<

Try looking at it this way: If you add the date, be it 2010 or 2012 to it, THEN you have a way to measure if you are on track for it. No, it does not matter WHAT the date is, it matters that there is SOME date. You will never tell DH that you want to do that if you never have a time pressure of some kind. If you don't have a date to have it done, then you don't have a date when you need to call the contractor, or consultant, or go to the shops to look at furniture. If you have no time pressure to do those things, you certainly don't need to bother DH about it ;-)

Jacqueline,

>>> But for her redecorating, she doesn't have to put a target date of estimated completion on it if she just works on it continually and it's done when it's done <<<

But the argument is that if there is no end point there is no reason to work little and often, lots and seldom, or even at all. Mostly people interested in improving time management skills are interested because they find themselves working not at all, on important goals. "My childhood goal was to be a ballerina, and now I'm 82. Maybe I should think about considering if maybe I might like to plan to schedule some time to start." LOL ;-)

You make a distinction (in another post) between "like to" and "have to". I contend that until "like to" BECOMES "have to" nothing much happens. If you read the biographies of very successful people, they always HAD TO ... no matter what it was. I read a quote by some writer or other (it might have been Azimov) and he said that if he was told he had only one day to live, the only thing he'd change was that he would just type faster. The most successful people say, over and over, that they do what they do because if they could not they would not find life worth living. It is all about HAVE TO.

>>> (and sometimes those kinds of goals are never officially *done* anyway). <<<

That can be true -- but it is also another example of thinking of goals as static. If there is a fixed firm endpoint, and if it is understood that goals are dynamic, then the goal will be altered and what is not "done" is just what was envisioned to start with. The goal will have been modified many times along the way. Maybe the redecoration of the living room included the idea of a home theater. A month into the planning that idea is dropped in favor of library shelves. Have you "failed" in the goal? No, the goal is "changed". Goals are dynamic, not static. If you change the furniture, carpet and drapes, have you failed in the goal because the kitchen is not done?

>>> I don't think most people would or should put an estimated completion date on a goal like that unless they were selling the house or having a family reunion at a certain time or other external event. <<<

I can't speak for "most people" but I assure you that I would. I can also assure you that all clients of decorating consultants and sellers of furniture and drapes will ... because those sellers and consultants want the transaction completed by a certain date or they will not waste their time with you. They are not in business to experience your dreams, but to make money by selling stuff to people who have fixed end dates. They don't get paid until they actually deliver the furniture.

>>> I could have a goal of $1M net worth by X retirement date but then the market takes a downturn. If it does, I'll likely be upset that I didn't make the date. But if I made a goal of $1M net worth and I don't have a date to pull the plug, I'll just keep on working until I hit the net worth target. <<<

Don't you think that the reality is that people without well-formed goals don't work at all on the project? How many people want "to be rich" and never think of what actions that entails?

>>> Yes, I'd still be upset if the market took a downturn but I haven't beaten myself up for not making the predetermined date. <<<

See but "beating yourself up" is not driven by the kind of time management system you use, but how you internalize things and relate to your own self-worth. Those are psychological parameters, not time management ones. Two different people can experience the same market down turn and one be upset and the other see it as an opportunity to get to his goal that much sooner. There is no external objective reality in this ... it is all internal evaluation and response.

>>> I'd probably have a vague timeframe in mind for when I think I could achieve it based on a savings rate and normal rate of market returns but I'd probably just revise my target net worth down by the amount that I lost and figure out alternative ways to save more so that I could live without having quite $1M. That's the X-15% (or given the 2008 market, X-25%). <<<

And that would be an excellent example of a dynamic goal.