FV and FVP Forum > Tea-Breaks, Rest Periods etc...
Calendar or diary probably. FV/AF etc are more for non-scheduled activities.
March 13, 2012 at 17:30 |
michael
michael
When lunch time approached, I informally added it at the end. Keeping laundry moving was more important. After that, lunch won.
March 13, 2012 at 20:24 |
Cricket
Cricket
For me, this question is key.
I have found the discipline of doing ONLY what is currently the active item on the list is liberating. It is not easy. But it is an essential life skill.
Already, after one day of FV, I have found that I have had to make use of a second column. If I am working on Project X and I go to the bathroom, I am no longer working on Project X. I am going to the bathroom.
I can choose to work some more on Project X after returning from the bathroom. But the list, as I use it, is a tool for developing self-awareness and for reducing self-delusion.
I was unable to make FV work transparently without using a second column.
I need now to figure out exactly what my revised rule will be. If my active item is Project X and I then stop and go the bathroom after putting it in the second column, what rule do I follow when I return?
Do I allow myself to continue Project X, or do I say that Project X ended when I went to the bathroom and now I do the next dotted item on my list?
The latter method seems more elegant, the former more realistic.
(I understand that the system is built to work for me and I am not its slave. But my experience has been that I am most successful when a system is both flexible enough to handle a quickly changing environment and rigid enough to force me to exercise discipline.)
I have found the discipline of doing ONLY what is currently the active item on the list is liberating. It is not easy. But it is an essential life skill.
Already, after one day of FV, I have found that I have had to make use of a second column. If I am working on Project X and I go to the bathroom, I am no longer working on Project X. I am going to the bathroom.
I can choose to work some more on Project X after returning from the bathroom. But the list, as I use it, is a tool for developing self-awareness and for reducing self-delusion.
I was unable to make FV work transparently without using a second column.
I need now to figure out exactly what my revised rule will be. If my active item is Project X and I then stop and go the bathroom after putting it in the second column, what rule do I follow when I return?
Do I allow myself to continue Project X, or do I say that Project X ended when I went to the bathroom and now I do the next dotted item on my list?
The latter method seems more elegant, the former more realistic.
(I understand that the system is built to work for me and I am not its slave. But my experience has been that I am most successful when a system is both flexible enough to handle a quickly changing environment and rigid enough to force me to exercise discipline.)
March 13, 2012 at 21:27 |
moises
moises
Moises, there's no need for a second column Project X is the last dot in the book. Whenever you return from an interruption, look at the last dot -- which will be Project X. Look at all the entries you made since your last review, to see if you want to do any of them more than continuing with Project X. (I keep wanting to say "are more important" or "stands out".)
If you're done with Project X for now, cross it out and rewrite at the end. If you want to stick with it, you can cross out and rewrite and dot and work on it, or just pretend the break never happened.
If you're done with Project X for now, cross it out and rewrite at the end. If you want to stick with it, you can cross out and rewrite and dot and work on it, or just pretend the break never happened.
March 13, 2012 at 22:18 |
Cricket
Cricket
Cricket,
If I need to have an interruption, I want to write it down, because I feel that writing before doing makes me much more self-aware (see the DIT book). Are you saying to write it at the bottom of the list, dot it, and then continue where I left off?
If I need to have an interruption, I want to write it down, because I feel that writing before doing makes me much more self-aware (see the DIT book). Are you saying to write it at the bottom of the list, dot it, and then continue where I left off?
March 14, 2012 at 0:39 |
moises
moises
moises - Here is what I was thinking:
If you are working on Project X, that means it's the last dotted item in your list.
If you need to take a break, write down the "break" item, put a dot next to it, and take the break.
When you return, you should continue with the last dotted item on your list, which would be "break". You just completed this, so you can cross it off, and then continue with the next-to-last dotted item, which would be Project X.
Another approach that might be more precisely in keeping with the rules would be as follows:
- You are working on Project X.
- You want to stop working on Project X (at least for a moment) and take a break.
- So, you cross off Project X, and re-write it at the end of the list. You want to continue with it very urgently, so you put a dot next to it.
- You then want to take your break very urgently, so you add "break" at the end of the list, and put a dot next to it.
- You then work the dotted items starting from the end of the list.
- This means you take your break.
- Then you return from your break, and cross off "break" because you are done with it.
- Then you go to the next dotted item from the end of the list, which is "Project X", which you then work as long as you want.
The latter approach gives a more precise record of what you actually did. But if you don't care about having such a precise record, the first approach is simpler and gives exactly the same results.
If you are working on Project X, that means it's the last dotted item in your list.
If you need to take a break, write down the "break" item, put a dot next to it, and take the break.
When you return, you should continue with the last dotted item on your list, which would be "break". You just completed this, so you can cross it off, and then continue with the next-to-last dotted item, which would be Project X.
Another approach that might be more precisely in keeping with the rules would be as follows:
- You are working on Project X.
- You want to stop working on Project X (at least for a moment) and take a break.
- So, you cross off Project X, and re-write it at the end of the list. You want to continue with it very urgently, so you put a dot next to it.
- You then want to take your break very urgently, so you add "break" at the end of the list, and put a dot next to it.
- You then work the dotted items starting from the end of the list.
- This means you take your break.
- Then you return from your break, and cross off "break" because you are done with it.
- Then you go to the next dotted item from the end of the list, which is "Project X", which you then work as long as you want.
The latter approach gives a more precise record of what you actually did. But if you don't care about having such a precise record, the first approach is simpler and gives exactly the same results.
March 14, 2012 at 6:17 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
The correct answer to Moise's conundrum - which is actually given in the rules - is to break off from Project X without crossing it out, write "Go to Bathroom" at the end of the list, put a dot against it, go the bathroom, cross it out, and go back to the previous dotted item which in this case is Project X.
I suppose if you want to be really picky then you should cross out Project X, write it at the end of the list with a dot, and then write Go to Bathroom with a dot immediately after it. But since the effect is exactly the same, I can't see much point in the extra work.
Either way there is absolutely no need for a second column.
I suppose if you want to be really picky then you should cross out Project X, write it at the end of the list with a dot, and then write Go to Bathroom with a dot immediately after it. But since the effect is exactly the same, I can't see much point in the extra work.
Either way there is absolutely no need for a second column.
March 14, 2012 at 9:13 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Cricket:
<< Look at all the entries you made since your last review, to see if you want to do any of them more than continuing with Project X. >>
That should read "want to do any of them *before* continuing with Project X". The difference is important.
<< Look at all the entries you made since your last review, to see if you want to do any of them more than continuing with Project X. >>
That should read "want to do any of them *before* continuing with Project X". The difference is important.
March 14, 2012 at 9:16 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark,
Thank you for clarifying the instructions for me.
Thank you for clarifying the instructions for me.
March 14, 2012 at 11:52 |
moises
moises
"Before". Slippage already. Yes, "before" is the key. It adds a time dimension to the question. I might want to prepare an awesome birthday meal more than clear the breakfast dishes, but 'before' straightens that out.
(Googles WTDB: World Tax DataBase. Yes, I want to do many things before looking at that.)
(Googles WTDB: World Tax DataBase. Yes, I want to do many things before looking at that.)
March 14, 2012 at 14:00 |
Cricket
Cricket
When you want a "tea break", assuming it's not URGENT, following the rules:
1. Finish the things you have marked, even if you only do a little of each.
2. Write Tea Break at the end.
3. Scan through the list, marking the things you will do after the break, and lastly mark the tea break.
4. Break time!
1. Finish the things you have marked, even if you only do a little of each.
2. Write Tea Break at the end.
3. Scan through the list, marking the things you will do after the break, and lastly mark the tea break.
4. Break time!
March 14, 2012 at 16:03 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
Alan,
That's one approach but as I see it, one of the many good things about the system is that it allows you to simply take the break and resume where you left off.
Ian
That's one approach but as I see it, one of the many good things about the system is that it allows you to simply take the break and resume where you left off.
Ian
March 14, 2012 at 16:29 |
IanS
IanS
When engaged on a task, I have been using my iPhone with a app called Pomodoro Pro. The default is 25 minutes of work and then a 5-minute break. That way my coffee break or bathroom break is during the 5-minute break. The 25-minute stretch ensures that I stay focused.
You can Google the word "pomodoro" to learn more about how it works. It is not a substitute but an adjunct to FV.
You can Google the word "pomodoro" to learn more about how it works. It is not a substitute but an adjunct to FV.
March 14, 2012 at 16:40 |
Prof John
Prof John
For the way I work, the big advantage of SF was the "safety valve" of the second column. Perhaps some people fear they will abuse it. That was my fear when I first started SF. But I rarely had more than two entries in the second column on any page.
As Mark explained to me above (and in the original instructions, though I did not grasp it) FV has a safety valve feature that serves the function of SF's second column.
I have been using it this morning and it is working quite well.
When it can wait, I use Alan's method. When it can't, I follow the steps outlined by Mark in this thread.
As Mark explained to me above (and in the original instructions, though I did not grasp it) FV has a safety valve feature that serves the function of SF's second column.
I have been using it this morning and it is working quite well.
When it can wait, I use Alan's method. When it can't, I follow the steps outlined by Mark in this thread.
March 14, 2012 at 16:41 |
moises
moises
I wouldn't dream of putting breaks into an AF or FV list - it would make the whole thing feel terribly regimented and controlling and I'd resist everything.
I use the Pomodoro technique to get myself to work for 25 minutes, and then I take a short break.
I use the Pomodoro technique to get myself to work for 25 minutes, and then I take a short break.
March 14, 2012 at 17:49 |
Annette
Annette
My approach would be: before putting 'break' at the end with a dot, make a decision whether or not you're done with project X, and cross it out or not accordingly.
March 17, 2012 at 9:07 |
John Graham
John Graham
<<I wouldn't dream of putting breaks into an AF or FV list - it would make the whole thing feel terribly regimented and controlling and I'd resist everything.>>
Agree. I find there's a fine tipping point (for me anyway) for any task/project system between helpful scaffolding & anxiety infused OCD rituals.
Pomodoro seems like it can play nice with FV.
Agree. I find there's a fine tipping point (for me anyway) for any task/project system between helpful scaffolding & anxiety infused OCD rituals.
Pomodoro seems like it can play nice with FV.
March 17, 2012 at 13:07 |
avrum
avrum
To write breaks gives me impetus to keep working until I reach the next break. Without, I would take breaks after and amid every task. In fact I often still do, but the systematic release valve is helping to curb that tendency.
March 17, 2012 at 14:21 |
Alan Baljeu
Alan Baljeu
My son's kindergarten teacher had a daily schedule at the front, with both pictures and words. Each activity was on a card with velcro, and every morning she would put the activities on and discuss the schedule with the kids.
She said the most important activity was home time. Many kids were anxious until they saw it.
She said the most important activity was home time. Many kids were anxious until they saw it.
March 17, 2012 at 21:21 |
Cricket
Cricket
Generally speaking the guiding principle about whether to put things like meals, breaks, cups of coffee, etc, on the list is whether they are a problem for you if you don't. For instance if you find that you don't take enough breaks, then put them on the list (preferably with how long they are, e.g. 30 minute break). If you drink too many cups of coffee then make "Cup of Coffee" a task on the list.
This is also a good technique with displacement activities. Put your favourite displacement activities on the list and they stop being displacement activities!
This is also a good technique with displacement activities. Put your favourite displacement activities on the list and they stop being displacement activities!
March 18, 2012 at 1:10 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
<<displacement activities >>
Mark - when you get a chance, can you elaborate on this? Thanks.
Mark - when you get a chance, can you elaborate on this? Thanks.
March 18, 2012 at 2:47 |
avrum
avrum
March 18, 2012 at 10:18 |
Wooba
Wooba
Wooba - thanks.
March 18, 2012 at 11:45 |
avrum
avrum
Is it better to put Tea breaks, Lunch, Rest periods etc into the system, or instead block off a set time of day for them? ie. "I'll have a tea break at 3pm"
Neil