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FV and FVP Forum > NEW! Screencast: Evernote & FV (better quality, better workflow (courtesy of Mr. Forster)

sabre23t <<I don't find this to be true for Evernote Windows 4.5.4 or Evernote Android 3.5.3.>>

Huh, I think I figured it out. Using Evernote for Android, I was tagging notes by tapping the pen icon to open the note, and then the tag button at the bottom of the screen. This *will* change the "Last updated" field, even if no other changes are made to the note. However, in Android you can also tag notes without opening them by tapping the down arrow and selecting "Tag". This *will not* change the "Last updated" field.

In Windows tagging a note will not change the Updated field, but removing a tag will. This is weirdly inconsistent but works great for FV.

Incidentally, I also noticed that editing the title of the note (in Evernote for Windows) does not change the Updated field, which might be handy if you want to revise a note without affecting its ordering. However, doing so in Android does change the Updated field, as far as I can tell.
March 23, 2012 at 15:29 | Unregistered CommenterFSE
@ Mark Forster: Apologies from my side, if I came across a picking on Evernote, because it doesn't have the same user experience on the Mac, iPad and iPhone. That was not my intention. I just wanted to share my views and thoughts.

I will put together some screenshot in a PDF at the weekend for you to look at, comparing EN and TaskPaper. No, I don't want to start the discussion again ;)

Cheers
March 23, 2012 at 16:56 | Unregistered CommenterStefano F. Rausch
I've *never* noticed the Copy Note Link option in EverNote before. This thread made me look for it, and guess what: I was on an old version of EverNote, sigh. Upgraded, and now I can make Note Links. Brilliant!
March 23, 2012 at 18:35 | Unregistered CommenterNicole
Mark Forster (or anyone who has penned a book)

I'm in the very early stages of writing a book (Tentative title: The best time to work on your marriage is when you are single), and have random bits of quotes/passages spread all over Evernote. I'm curious how you would organize this? How would you use tags, note links, etc.

Thanks.
March 23, 2012 at 19:26 | Registered Commenteravrum
A little Evernote tip (works on Mac--don't know about others):

You can "Open New Evernote Window" from the File Menu. This would allow you to have a dedicated FV window, where you could quickly click and do your work, while the rest of your Evernote activity would still be as-usual in another window.
March 23, 2012 at 21:02 | Unregistered Commenterdanno
FSE:

I need to examine exactly what the conditions are for the notes updating. I haven't got a consistent result yet - however it's working fine for FV.
March 24, 2012 at 2:05 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
danno:

Unfortunately you can't do that on Evernote for PC - or at least if you can I haven't discovered how yet. Good tip for those on Mac though.
March 24, 2012 at 2:07 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Nicole:

In case you haven't found it yet, you can retitle note links so they act just like a clickable link in a document.
March 24, 2012 at 2:10 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
FSE wrote:
<< In Windows tagging a note will not change the Updated field, but removing a tag will >>

It's a little bit more nuanced. I found on EN Windows, if the task have only one tag, removing it will change Updated field. If the task have more than one tags, removing a tag will not change Updated field. I suspect that's due to some programming reason, rather than by design.

I'm still on EN Windows 4.5.4.6487(234804)Public. I skipped updating to a newer version today, 4.5.4.6497(235205)Public.
March 24, 2012 at 5:28 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
FSE wrote:
<< tag notes without opening them by tapping the down arrow >>

I believe you did this from EN Android individual note view screen, the down arrow appears on the top right.

You can save one keypress while tagging, by long press on a note in EN Android list view. That gives a pop up menu including "tag", that opens up the same tag selection form.

I'm on EN Android 3.5.3(226886)Public.
March 24, 2012 at 5:36 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
I have just installed Evernote and started familiarising myself with it. I am unable to view the fields (Updated, Created, Title) displayed in Avrum’s Youtube demo. Any advice?
March 24, 2012 at 6:33 | Unregistered CommenterGeoff
Avrum's video is showing EN Mac. Are you using the same? A Mac EN user would have answer, since I'm using EN Windows.
March 24, 2012 at 7:34 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
I'm also using EN Windows. I wonder if it doesn't support the option to display the fields.
March 24, 2012 at 7:44 | Unregistered CommenterGeoff
Geoff,
EN Windows 4.5.4 does have "Created" and "Updated" fields. Perhaps you accidentally turned those fields off? To turn fields on just right-click on any displayed fields headers/title. A pop up menu allows you to turn on may other fields. You can also reorder the fields by dragging its title, or resize the fields by dragging the title separators.

This is how my EN Windows screen looks while Doing FV preselection chain ...
http://www.smsabri.com/random/productivity/final-version/FV-EN-Do-tags.PNG .
March 24, 2012 at 9:10 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
The desktop implementation looks very good but if you need a mobile solution then I'm not sure Evernote on the phone is a good idea. The handy thing about apps like Wunderlist and Toodledo is that they have mobile versions which are quick to load and access. If I was going to use this Evernote set up I'd probably need to make a separate list for jobs away from home.

Anyone tried using this on the road?
March 24, 2012 at 10:59 | Unregistered CommenterShak
Avrum: great tittle!
March 24, 2012 at 13:15 | Unregistered CommenterVegheadjones
@ Shak: EN Mobile versions - at least the iOS ones - are great ( for project management … peace! ;)
March 24, 2012 at 15:26 | Unregistered CommenterStefano F. Rausch
sabre23t:
<<If the task has more than one tag, removing a tag will not change Updated field.>>

YES!! That explains the apparent inconsistencies and dictates a new operating procedure. I had a tag for my morning routine. I would drag the morning itemsl into the Do tag and couldn't figure out why they weren't updating as I did them the way everything else was updating.
The new rule is only one tag per item. Thank you!
March 24, 2012 at 17:09 | Registered Commentermoises
Stefano,

thanks. I am weighing up whether it might be better to upgrade to Evernote premium so I can access it on my phone when I'm on the road. I know that on the basic free Evernote package you can't view notes offline, on the android at any rate. This caused me problems previously as I sometimes need to provide business reference details which I keep stored on my phone. After running into problems with Evernote offline I transferred to Springpad for this purpose.
March 24, 2012 at 17:54 | Unregistered CommenterShak
Update:

I've set this up the same way as Avrum with a few test tasks and synced with my phone. I was out on an errand so I thought I'd see if I could access my notes without an internet connection and it worked fine. I'm not sure if this was because the information was still held in the memory cache but even so that's very workable.

I hadn't realised how powerful EN had become. Even if you decide to go premium for $49 a year you probably wouldn't need to have any other programme. Everything from capture to organisation has been handled very intuitively. I'm going to give it a serious test over the weekend to see how it handles projects in relation to tasks. Looks great so far.
March 24, 2012 at 20:43 | Unregistered CommenterShak
sabre23t:
<<If the task has more than one tag, removing a tag will not change Updated field.>>

My new system will only use one tag: Do.
I used to tag notes that were part of my morning routine. I can no longer do that. So, I have created a single action titled "do morning routine." In the body of that note I created a checklist. Each item in the checklist used to be a separate note.
When I get to work in the morning I will drag "do morning routine" to the Do tag. Then I will work off the checklist. Once that is complete I will follow avrum's rules.
March 24, 2012 at 22:23 | Registered Commentermoises
<<If the task has more than one tag, removing a tag will not change Updated field.>>

This is not true if you're working on a Mac.
March 24, 2012 at 22:31 | Registered Commenteravrum
Vegheadjones:

<<Avrum: great tittle!>>

Thanks. It encapsulates what I've learned as a recovering commitment-phobe, and as a therapist working with singles/young couples.
March 24, 2012 at 22:46 | Registered Commenteravrum
@ Shak: Good to hear and good luck with your intensive testing of EN.
March 24, 2012 at 23:33 | Unregistered CommenterStefano F. Rausch
@moises, I'm going the opposite on my EN Windows. Every task will have a tag (one of 6 project tags for now). So, I "touch" the notes body section, to get Updated field changed.

@shak, all the best on your EN Android adventure. It looks good so far on my SGS2. Though I've only been using it to Do a few of my preselected tasks while on the go. I haven't done a full new preselected chain on EN Android yet. But I think it'll be just a few keypress more complicated than doing it on EN Windows.
March 25, 2012 at 0:05 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
sabre23t on EN Windows: <<I "touch" the notes body section, to get Updated field changed.>>

Just to be clear for others who might be following this, clicking in the note body is not sufficient to get an update. My experience is that you have to type a character.
Probably, if I started off doing that, I would be happy to continue. But I got spoiled and don't want to add an extra step now.
March 25, 2012 at 2:25 | Registered Commentermoises
sabre23t

Thanks for the advice yesterday. You put me on the right track & I got it sorted out.
March 25, 2012 at 7:43 | Unregistered CommenterGeoff
@moises, Yes, I meant "touch" by typing at least a character. Anyway, I've been "tracking" my recurrent tasks by updating the notes body in EN (and previous apps). So no problem for me to continue doing so. For ...
(1) about daily recurrent ones, I add today's date or a "+" if already done today. So "Chk Mark Forster Final Version forum" have body like "Mar -- 13+ 14 23+ 24++ 25"
(2) unfinished irregular recurrent ones, I add today's full date with comments to help continuation. So "Chk desktop dropbox sync/version" have body like "24mar12 now 1.3.24 synced"

@Geoff, no prob. Are you Using EN Windows and EN Android combo too?
March 25, 2012 at 12:21 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
Avrum,

I have a different look in EN than you. What version are you using? I'm still a little baffled by yoiur method...
March 26, 2012 at 19:40 | Unregistered CommenterMark in Tx
Mark in Tx:

<<I'm still a little baffled by yoiur method... >>

Which part is baffling? I'll do my best to clarify.

(Mac) Evernote Version 3.0.6 (221382)
March 26, 2012 at 19:51 | Registered Commenteravrum
To track chain creation, I have a recurring task "*** What I want to do before I do X? ***" that I update the body with something ...

29mar12 130(7)
28mar12 -
27mar12 120(11)
26mar12 117(8)
25mar12 116(5) 118(7)
24mar12 111(6) 111(9)

... first number total FV tasks, second number the preselected chain tasks, where both is minus the one additional tracking task. Anyone else doing similar or better?
March 29, 2012 at 6:02 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
sabre23t,
I have not been tracking. I had to look carefully to find the number of notes in my FV notebook. In Windows there is a faint gray number in parentheses next to the notebook name. I have 53 notes.

I have been intentionally attempting to do more than one chain per day by keeping my chains as short as possible. This allows me to do more little and often, by working the same note more than one time in a day.
March 29, 2012 at 13:16 | Registered Commentermoises
I'm also attempting to do at least one chain each day, moises. It hasn't been happening so in the last few days ...

1apr12 - (+2)
31mar12 130(11)
30mar12 -
29mar12 130(7+2)
28mar12 -
27mar12 120(11)

... I'm starting partial preselecting when continuing previous day chain. Monitoring that by "- (+2)" etc.
April 1, 2012 at 4:39 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
Mark in Tx:

<< I have a different look in EN than you. What version are you using? I'm still a little baffled by yoiur method... >>

Avrum is using EN for Mac. I'm using EN for Windows and have had no problem reproducing his method. The most import thing is to set it to List format, not Snippet or Thumbnail (see the View menu).
April 1, 2012 at 8:43 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I have currently 53 tasks and am getting through 2 or 3 chains a day, which isn't bad considering I am supposed to be on holiday!
April 1, 2012 at 8:46 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I also noticed differences between what Avrum posted, since it is EN for Mac and the Windows version that I am using. I cannot figure out how to get the label "what do I want to do before" to show up on top of the list like Avrum did. I know it is a minor detail but I like the concept and would like to use that. I have never used EN before and see a lot of use for it, including this, but there seems to be a lot to learn.
April 1, 2012 at 15:11 | Unregistered CommenterLobs
OK, never mind, I was reading some other posts and saw a reference to the favorites bar, then went back to EN and realized that I was dragging the tags to the wrong place in EN. I have it working now. I was using Wunderlist but it was not syncing well between work and home computers and my Droid 4 phone, so I am anxious to get working on the EN version it looks encouraging. I have always wanted to do more with EN and am making this my reason to learn more about it. Thanks to Mark for the system and Avrum for the screencast.
April 1, 2012 at 15:24 | Unregistered CommenterLobs
Using avrum's FV implementation in EN has changed not only the way that I do FV, but it has changed the way I work fundamentally, and for the better.

Over the last week of doing FV in EN I found myself effortlessly logging information in the note body as I was working on my notes. After doing it a few times, I realized how powerful this practice is.

In the past, I would occasionally make notes after a phone call, in someone's contact information, or update the status of a project in a project plan. But, more often than not, I would only do this if I thought I would need the info later. Usually, I didn't realize I would need it until after the fact.

With EN it's so easy to record almost everything that I do it naturally, without having to decide first whether I will have a need for it to be logged.

The note body is a great place to write. EN would be the ne plus ultra of apps if there was the option to make the note body a spreadsheet. But the EN developers do not seem interested in going in that direction. Too bad for me.

(I know that I can insert an Excel spreadsheet link into the note body, but that has its own problems.)
April 1, 2012 at 15:37 | Registered Commentermoises
Moises:

<<doing FV in EN I found myself effortlessly logging information in the note body as I was working on my notes. After doing it a few times, I realized how powerful this practice is. >>

It's a wonderful way to incorporate breadcrumbs, journaling, and info for weekly reviews. A great to transform a bland task into a meaning-making venture.
April 1, 2012 at 16:24 | Registered Commenteravrum
Moises wrote:
<< With EN it's so easy to record almost everything that I do it naturally >>

Ever since I started using digital to do list, having the additional long notes body to each task is a must have feature for me. It's almost universally available, at least on the ones I've used, toodledo, checkvist, gtasks, irtgtasksoutliner, & wunderlist. EN's long note is one the more flexible ones, you can even have outline and table format in it. You really missed the feature, when you're used to it.

One key usage tip, is to log your latest notes at the top of EN notes body. So you'll see it first, without needing to scroll the body. Newest on top is also inline with default EN list sort, further more, newest on top is the only sort direction on EN Android.

Even when I was doing DWM on Excel spreadsheet, I simulated long note by putting a hyperlink in a cell, pointing to a TXT file with the long note.
April 2, 2012 at 8:14 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
I am trying to like Evernote, but I am having issues with it. It seems too much just for a simple list of tasks. What is annoying me the most, at the moment, is when adding a new task (CTRL+N) it defaults to an untitled task and the cursor goes to the note rather than the note title. So I then have to click in the box to write the task. This is too clunky for me. Is there a way to change this Evernote behaviour?
April 2, 2012 at 12:02 | Registered CommenterWooba
<<So I then have to click in the box to write the task.>>
Hi Wooba - the first line in the note is automatically captured in the note title, so you will find your task description on the note title when you are finished typing.
April 2, 2012 at 13:22 | Unregistered CommenterJD
<<One key usage tip, is to log your latest notes at the top of EN notes body>>

So sabre, do you then scan your list bottom up rather than top down? Yes, I've noticed that EN on Android has that default behaviour.
April 2, 2012 at 13:25 | Unregistered CommenterJD
<<the first line in the note is automatically captured in the note title>>

Not in the Mac version.
April 2, 2012 at 13:51 | Registered Commenteravrum
Here's a heads-up for EN Windows users. Today, around noon, I kept getting "Synchronization Failed" messages. I read the Activity Log and rebooted. Still no go. Googled the problem and emptied the trash. Problem solved.
April 2, 2012 at 18:11 | Registered Commentermoises
Yes JD, as per FV standard rules I preselect scan from the oldest to the newest. That is from the bottom to the top in the default EN newest first list sort.

When preselecting, rather than multi-select by ctrl-clicking, I instead tend to single select, which shows the title&body of the task/note at bottom of screen. Then I tag "!Do" the selected task, and use the mouse scroll wheel to scan for more tasks to select.

Scrolling with mouse doesn't move the cursor focus and hence the selected task/note at bottom of screen doesn't change. So the benchmark for "What I want to before I" is visible at the screen bottom, even when it is not visible in the list.

Referring to EN Windows.

Moises, emptying the trash without rebooting didn't solve my synchronization failed problem. I'll try again tomorrow, perhaps with rebooting. It's 1hr past my bedtime now. :-/
April 2, 2012 at 18:15 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
I've switched to EverNote last week for FV, with great success, but one thing kept bothering me, which is whether or not the time stamp of a note gets updated when adding or removing tags. This is important if you want to keep sort order intact when for some reason you need to scrap the preselection. Initially I thought it wasn't a problem, because on EN-Windows adding or removing a tag won't change Date Updated. BUT, at home I'm using a Mac and on EN-Mac adding or removing a tag *will* change Date Updated.

Today I found a solution: if you're adding or removing a tag by clicking in the tag-bar of the note, Date Updated will change (on EN-Mac). However, if you add a tag by dragging the note to a tag in the tag-list, Date Updated remains unchanged. And if you scrap your preselection by ctrl-clicking on the tag in the tag-list and then choosing "Remove tag from all notes" Date Updated remains unchanged.

Now I still need to figure if I can find a way to keep sort order intact when doing this on the iPhone...
April 4, 2012 at 22:04 | Registered CommenterNicole
<< Initially I thought it wasn't a problem, because on EN-Windows adding or removing a tag won't change Date Updated >>
Caution. On EN Windows, if the tag removed was the only tag on the task, date Updated is changed.

So to ensure I don't run foul of this "feature", I've just created a tag "!", preselect list aborted, to accompany "!Do", preselect list. Today was the first day I aborted my preselect list. I multi-select the aborted tasks, add "!" tag, remove "!Do" tag.

Psst ... Actually I forgot to do the above. I approximated it by adding the aborted tasks to "!" tag, and editing the Updated dates to be same as Created dates. Hopefully, next time I abort preselect list, I'll remember the "!" tag. :-)
April 5, 2012 at 6:59 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
<< And if you scrap your preselection by ctrl-clicking on the tag in the tag-list and then choosing "Remove tag from all notes" Date Updated remains unchanged. >>
Unfortunately EN Windows don't have that option. Right-Clicking on the "!Do" tag in the tag list only have the following options ...
* Create a tag in "!Do" ...
* Rename
* Delete ...
* Hide Unassigned Tags
April 5, 2012 at 7:49 | Unregistered Commentersabre23t
Hi sabre23t,

yes, I'm aware that removing the last tag in EN-Win does change Date Updated. But I'm using .w, .h and .a tags to have the possibility to separate my list into work and home lists and stuff that I can/want to do anywhere, so I'm never removing the last tag from a FV-note. So for my setup, it works well enough. Oh, and I have a saved search to check occassionaly if I have any FV-notes without a .h or .w tag.

I'm a bit disappointed though, that the EN user interface has all these subtle differences between the Mac and Win versions.
April 5, 2012 at 13:53 | Registered CommenterNicole
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