FV and FVP Forum > Question for Chris RE "If it needs doing, get on and do it"
Brent said he does PM and is an IT professional and asks for thoughts. This is a wide area covering a huge range of skills and roles. I've replied with my thoughts based on my observations over the last 18 years as an IT professional working in the UK channel across vendors, distributors and resellers in roles from sales to technical account management, and in the last couple of years focused on service delivery and customer technical project management.
"What do you do, personally, when you have 20-25 major tasks competing for your attention, several of which are part of large projects where several teams will be blocked if you fail to follow through, others are of high value to the business or personally, and you are under tremendous pressure to get them ALL done, or move them forward significantly, TODAY? When a handful of them weren't priorities at all yesterday, but suddenly have become emergencies? When most of them can't be done by myself alone but involve coordination with several other team members, vendors, customers, and other stakeholders? (All while dealing with all the other stuff, like several hours of meetings scattered through the day, emails, interruptions, checking on the family, running an errand or two, commuting to/from work, etc.)"
Anything else you want to add? Perhaps a countdown of 15 minutes or else Hans Gruber will detonate an underground nuclear device. Your hypothetical doomsday scenario indicates some problems in how this company manages its customer commitments and a project manager who is either really poor (in which case their projects will fail repeatedly with this level of apalling planning) or terribly unlucky today (in which case the solution is communication, pulling in additional resource, delegating other jobs and utilising buffers which should have been worked into the timelines, and likely learning lessons in scoping for future projects).
By "get on and do it" I'm highlighting that in the IT profession, especially in a role where you touch a number of parts of the business you will find endless distractions to stop you doing anything. So once you've determined that something does need doing, knuckle down and get it done. Get off email, Lync, mute phone, get busy.
"I can understand your approach when switching between 3-5 major tasks, or even 8-10 major tasks, but I don't see how you can just "get on and do it" when faced with the kind of thing I am describing. How do you prioritize? How do you decide, in face of changing priorities, circumstances, etc., what "good enough" looks like? How do you decide what to drop completely?"
You're massively over-analysing, which will cripple you. You use common-sense and knowledge and skills in the relevant area to make judgement calls about what to move around. In this case you make the call based on your skills and knowledge.
In medical trauma response, a subject I've studied and qualified in outside of work, there are loads of algorithms to cover trauma situations and try to minimise loss of life or life-changing injuries in time-critical situations. In these cases algorithms, designed by professional bodies such as the UK Resuscitation Council, are used to minimise the variables and provide a uniform standard of care across all practitioners. In this case they've already made the call in the form of algorithms, you implement them on scene and use your skills and knowledge to know when they apply.
"I will be happy to be proven wrong, but I imagine your answer will be somewhat more nuanced than "get on and do it"."
It already was, since you snipped most of what I wrote in that first bullet and quoted it out of context.
"<< Identify what needs doing each week and each day up front, and try to finish each day and each week having done them >>
That is generally good advice, and I do focus on a handful of things I want to be sure to get done each day and week, but that accounts for less than half of what I might actually get done on any particular day or week -- a lot of it needs to flex based on a chaotic environment. I don't see that this advice tells a person HOW to go about doing this. I can think of a dozen books and seminars that do try to tell a person how to do this - perhaps you have a simpler answer?"
You're asking me to qualify an answer to a question I wasn't asked. I'm happy that it is a perfectly good bit of advice in response to "Thoughts?". I find that when I start each week I can think of some things I really want to get out the way that week and I endeavour to get them done.
Chris
"What do you do, personally, when you have 20-25 major tasks competing for your attention, several of which are part of large projects where several teams will be blocked if you fail to follow through, others are of high value to the business or personally, and you are under tremendous pressure to get them ALL done, or move them forward significantly, TODAY? When a handful of them weren't priorities at all yesterday, but suddenly have become emergencies? When most of them can't be done by myself alone but involve coordination with several other team members, vendors, customers, and other stakeholders? (All while dealing with all the other stuff, like several hours of meetings scattered through the day, emails, interruptions, checking on the family, running an errand or two, commuting to/from work, etc.)"
Anything else you want to add? Perhaps a countdown of 15 minutes or else Hans Gruber will detonate an underground nuclear device. Your hypothetical doomsday scenario indicates some problems in how this company manages its customer commitments and a project manager who is either really poor (in which case their projects will fail repeatedly with this level of apalling planning) or terribly unlucky today (in which case the solution is communication, pulling in additional resource, delegating other jobs and utilising buffers which should have been worked into the timelines, and likely learning lessons in scoping for future projects).
By "get on and do it" I'm highlighting that in the IT profession, especially in a role where you touch a number of parts of the business you will find endless distractions to stop you doing anything. So once you've determined that something does need doing, knuckle down and get it done. Get off email, Lync, mute phone, get busy.
"I can understand your approach when switching between 3-5 major tasks, or even 8-10 major tasks, but I don't see how you can just "get on and do it" when faced with the kind of thing I am describing. How do you prioritize? How do you decide, in face of changing priorities, circumstances, etc., what "good enough" looks like? How do you decide what to drop completely?"
You're massively over-analysing, which will cripple you. You use common-sense and knowledge and skills in the relevant area to make judgement calls about what to move around. In this case you make the call based on your skills and knowledge.
In medical trauma response, a subject I've studied and qualified in outside of work, there are loads of algorithms to cover trauma situations and try to minimise loss of life or life-changing injuries in time-critical situations. In these cases algorithms, designed by professional bodies such as the UK Resuscitation Council, are used to minimise the variables and provide a uniform standard of care across all practitioners. In this case they've already made the call in the form of algorithms, you implement them on scene and use your skills and knowledge to know when they apply.
"I will be happy to be proven wrong, but I imagine your answer will be somewhat more nuanced than "get on and do it"."
It already was, since you snipped most of what I wrote in that first bullet and quoted it out of context.
"<< Identify what needs doing each week and each day up front, and try to finish each day and each week having done them >>
That is generally good advice, and I do focus on a handful of things I want to be sure to get done each day and week, but that accounts for less than half of what I might actually get done on any particular day or week -- a lot of it needs to flex based on a chaotic environment. I don't see that this advice tells a person HOW to go about doing this. I can think of a dozen books and seminars that do try to tell a person how to do this - perhaps you have a simpler answer?"
You're asking me to qualify an answer to a question I wasn't asked. I'm happy that it is a perfectly good bit of advice in response to "Thoughts?". I find that when I start each week I can think of some things I really want to get out the way that week and I endeavour to get them done.
Chris
August 22, 2015 at 11:45 |
Chris
Chris
Thanks for the reply Chris and Serahim to this and the other thread. I appreciate the acknowledgement by you and Seraphim that the IT environment can have a lot of additional distractions due to the nature of customer support. It is definitely something that many struggle with.
It is true that some days can feel like something is going to detonate in 15 minutes and it doesn't matter how well we planned the week. I actually feel more clarity in those moments because I can see it should be my top focus. The times I struggle the most however, is when I have a lot of requests coming in that are small and easy but due to volume get quite onerous. My team and I do pretty good with the "big rocks" but sometimes *feel* that there is so much "sand" blowing around that we are soon to be buried in a dune.
For these times, I find it very helpful to simply create a list. It is very clarifying. It is obviously why I'm drawn to this site and most recently the FVP algorithm of how to deal with the list you just made.
Having said that, in a day to day hour to hour process, I'm aware that just how big that list really is and if there isn't a detonation in the next 15 minutes, I sometimes wonder, if I should I buckle down on a big rock or should I clear out some of this sand. Despite what Stephen Covey and others say about doing the big rocks first, I have found that if you don't "sweep" the sand away often, you will be buried quickly. It is easily to get a little stuck in the day not knowing what to focus on based on time, energy and resources available.
The question that I ask myself in that situation was the topic at hand and I was debating between whether I should ask myself "What do I want to do next", What should I do next" or "What will I do next"
I'm leaning toward the final question of "What will I do or start next?" simply because it evokes the feeling of the determination "get on and do it" that Chris mentioned but also by asking the question while looking at my list proves that I'm in control of what I'm choosing rather than the more reactive latest and loudest approach that is so easy to fall into in our profession.
Brent
It is true that some days can feel like something is going to detonate in 15 minutes and it doesn't matter how well we planned the week. I actually feel more clarity in those moments because I can see it should be my top focus. The times I struggle the most however, is when I have a lot of requests coming in that are small and easy but due to volume get quite onerous. My team and I do pretty good with the "big rocks" but sometimes *feel* that there is so much "sand" blowing around that we are soon to be buried in a dune.
For these times, I find it very helpful to simply create a list. It is very clarifying. It is obviously why I'm drawn to this site and most recently the FVP algorithm of how to deal with the list you just made.
Having said that, in a day to day hour to hour process, I'm aware that just how big that list really is and if there isn't a detonation in the next 15 minutes, I sometimes wonder, if I should I buckle down on a big rock or should I clear out some of this sand. Despite what Stephen Covey and others say about doing the big rocks first, I have found that if you don't "sweep" the sand away often, you will be buried quickly. It is easily to get a little stuck in the day not knowing what to focus on based on time, energy and resources available.
The question that I ask myself in that situation was the topic at hand and I was debating between whether I should ask myself "What do I want to do next", What should I do next" or "What will I do next"
I'm leaning toward the final question of "What will I do or start next?" simply because it evokes the feeling of the determination "get on and do it" that Chris mentioned but also by asking the question while looking at my list proves that I'm in control of what I'm choosing rather than the more reactive latest and loudest approach that is so easy to fall into in our profession.
Brent
August 22, 2015 at 16:05 |
Brent
Brent
Seraphim this is my take, uninformed by any particular expertise and feel free to ignore it.
The situation you describe seems to me to be unmanageable and unsustainable by any time management or other system. It looks to me as if it would lead to physical or mental illness at worst or severe burnout at best. It looks to me as if the organization is dysfunctional.
I forget the book where I read this analogy but it was somewhere among the reading I did for a course I teach on creative thinking. We spend part of the semester talking about stress and its effects and about time management and also about working in and with teams. This analogy is relevant to all those topics:
If you think of a work system as a colander or sieve, when the demands of the system increase you can either grind yourself finer and finer (do more and more, usually with less and less) to get through the holes or make the holes larger. The first response has the advantage that it's safe and anyone can do it. But only for "a while" as you approach ineffectiveness or burnout. The second response means that you work to change (humanize, improve) the system. It has risks of failure or firing and requires administrative buy in and takes a lot of energy.
I've changed some systems in my work career. I've also ground myself down into nothing, until I made the decision to walk away--a decision I almost always delayed too long.
"Work" does not have to be as unbalanced and unsustainable as what you describe.
(On a side note, I was puzzled that you increased the stress of your work day by running errands and checking in with family. When I had high stress jobs (or high stress periods) I didn't run errands during work. My children contacted me if there was an emergency. I checked in with my spouse at the end of the day. )
The situation you describe seems to me to be unmanageable and unsustainable by any time management or other system. It looks to me as if it would lead to physical or mental illness at worst or severe burnout at best. It looks to me as if the organization is dysfunctional.
I forget the book where I read this analogy but it was somewhere among the reading I did for a course I teach on creative thinking. We spend part of the semester talking about stress and its effects and about time management and also about working in and with teams. This analogy is relevant to all those topics:
If you think of a work system as a colander or sieve, when the demands of the system increase you can either grind yourself finer and finer (do more and more, usually with less and less) to get through the holes or make the holes larger. The first response has the advantage that it's safe and anyone can do it. But only for "a while" as you approach ineffectiveness or burnout. The second response means that you work to change (humanize, improve) the system. It has risks of failure or firing and requires administrative buy in and takes a lot of energy.
I've changed some systems in my work career. I've also ground myself down into nothing, until I made the decision to walk away--a decision I almost always delayed too long.
"Work" does not have to be as unbalanced and unsustainable as what you describe.
(On a side note, I was puzzled that you increased the stress of your work day by running errands and checking in with family. When I had high stress jobs (or high stress periods) I didn't run errands during work. My children contacted me if there was an emergency. I checked in with my spouse at the end of the day. )
August 22, 2015 at 16:29 |
Liz I
Liz I
I find it's important to not let new things coming in interrupt what I'm doing if I can help it because there's an additional cost of switching supporting material to deal with different things. It's present in all things but if someone is moving from one task to another it's handled automatically and so not noticed, but enforced moving between unrelated things really highlights it.
In IT, and in a role with a number of touch points in the business with constant interruptions, the cost of moving different supporting material in and out of view, in order to deal with each one, can snowball and start eclipse the tasks themselves. Hence queuing stuff on a list and staying on what you're on until some sensible checkpoint where you can easily pick it up again, if you're able to, is preferable.
Chris
In IT, and in a role with a number of touch points in the business with constant interruptions, the cost of moving different supporting material in and out of view, in order to deal with each one, can snowball and start eclipse the tasks themselves. Hence queuing stuff on a list and staying on what you're on until some sensible checkpoint where you can easily pick it up again, if you're able to, is preferable.
Chris
August 22, 2015 at 16:37 |
Chris
Chris
Chris wrote:
<< Brent said he does PM and is an IT professional and asks for thoughts. This is a wide area covering a huge range of skills and roles. I've replied with my thoughts based on my observations over the last 18 years as an IT professional working >>
I appreciate that, and was not challenging your experience or competence, not in the least. I also work in IT as a product manager. I've been doing related work for 20+ years. I'm saying this only to establish that we are talking about similar contexts.
<< Your hypothetical doomsday scenario >>
It wasn't hypothetical, and it wasn't doomsday. This was basically my day, yesterday (which I had already described here: http://markforster.squarespace.com/fv-forum/post/2514204#post2535085 ). The numbers I used were from yesterday. I grant that it *was* an extraordinary day, but I've had plenty of other days like that one. It wasn't a "doomsday" scenario. With FVP I felt quite on top of it. It was still stressful and draining, but at the end of the day I felt quite satisfied with how it all worked out. I don't think I've been able to say that for a very long time, for a day like that -- not with AF, or DIT, or iDoneThis, or my own ad-hoc whatever systems, or anything else I've tried.
<< indicates some problems in how this company manages its customer commitments >> etc.
Of course it does. I agree there are overall organizational and management issues at the root cause of many of these issues. And at least 2 or 3 of those 20+ tasks I worked on yesterday were directly related to solving those root cause issues. And as long as those root causes remain, it's just the reality I deal with. I am certainly not alone.
<< By "get on and do it" I'm highlighting that in the IT profession, especially in a role where you touch a number of parts of the business you will find endless distractions to stop you doing anything. >>
I agree with you. But I don't think there was anything I worked on yesterday that would fit into that "distraction" category, except perhaps posting here. :-) (But I come here for a mental break -- it helps me take a step back from the actual fray and come back with a fresher perspective.)
<< So once you've determined that something does need doing, knuckle down and get it done. Get off email, Lync, mute phone, get busy. >>
That doesn't work for me. There is too much to do that all wants attention. All of it is important (to somebody, at least). I've got to find the right balance between what is really important for ME to do, what's best for the business, what's best for my team, is the management request really needed or does somebody just need to check a box on a form. I need to be able to figure out what "good enough" is -- and that changes depending on the conflicting priorities. "Just get it done" begs the question -- WHAT to get done, and to what degree?
<< You're massively over-analysing, which will cripple you. >>
Granted, that can be crippling. But I've tried the "just get it done" approach. There *is* great value there. "Do It Tomorrow" and any "closed list" system has this at its core: the Will Do list, for example. I used that for a long time, and it was very simple and helpful. It is very helpful for getting realistic about one's commitments. But it isn't adequate for the kind of situation I am describing, which is unfortunately very common in the modern world.
<< In medical trauma response, … there are loads of algorithms to cover trauma situations >> etc.
Yes, triage / "simple rules" are great, I try to use them myself all the time: email, user requests, etc.
<< you snipped most of what I wrote in that first bullet and quoted it out of context >>
I actually didn't think I had done that, but I apologize if you feel I've misrepresented you.
<< Brent said he does PM and is an IT professional and asks for thoughts. This is a wide area covering a huge range of skills and roles. I've replied with my thoughts based on my observations over the last 18 years as an IT professional working >>
I appreciate that, and was not challenging your experience or competence, not in the least. I also work in IT as a product manager. I've been doing related work for 20+ years. I'm saying this only to establish that we are talking about similar contexts.
<< Your hypothetical doomsday scenario >>
It wasn't hypothetical, and it wasn't doomsday. This was basically my day, yesterday (which I had already described here: http://markforster.squarespace.com/fv-forum/post/2514204#post2535085 ). The numbers I used were from yesterday. I grant that it *was* an extraordinary day, but I've had plenty of other days like that one. It wasn't a "doomsday" scenario. With FVP I felt quite on top of it. It was still stressful and draining, but at the end of the day I felt quite satisfied with how it all worked out. I don't think I've been able to say that for a very long time, for a day like that -- not with AF, or DIT, or iDoneThis, or my own ad-hoc whatever systems, or anything else I've tried.
<< indicates some problems in how this company manages its customer commitments >> etc.
Of course it does. I agree there are overall organizational and management issues at the root cause of many of these issues. And at least 2 or 3 of those 20+ tasks I worked on yesterday were directly related to solving those root cause issues. And as long as those root causes remain, it's just the reality I deal with. I am certainly not alone.
<< By "get on and do it" I'm highlighting that in the IT profession, especially in a role where you touch a number of parts of the business you will find endless distractions to stop you doing anything. >>
I agree with you. But I don't think there was anything I worked on yesterday that would fit into that "distraction" category, except perhaps posting here. :-) (But I come here for a mental break -- it helps me take a step back from the actual fray and come back with a fresher perspective.)
<< So once you've determined that something does need doing, knuckle down and get it done. Get off email, Lync, mute phone, get busy. >>
That doesn't work for me. There is too much to do that all wants attention. All of it is important (to somebody, at least). I've got to find the right balance between what is really important for ME to do, what's best for the business, what's best for my team, is the management request really needed or does somebody just need to check a box on a form. I need to be able to figure out what "good enough" is -- and that changes depending on the conflicting priorities. "Just get it done" begs the question -- WHAT to get done, and to what degree?
<< You're massively over-analysing, which will cripple you. >>
Granted, that can be crippling. But I've tried the "just get it done" approach. There *is* great value there. "Do It Tomorrow" and any "closed list" system has this at its core: the Will Do list, for example. I used that for a long time, and it was very simple and helpful. It is very helpful for getting realistic about one's commitments. But it isn't adequate for the kind of situation I am describing, which is unfortunately very common in the modern world.
<< In medical trauma response, … there are loads of algorithms to cover trauma situations >> etc.
Yes, triage / "simple rules" are great, I try to use them myself all the time: email, user requests, etc.
<< you snipped most of what I wrote in that first bullet and quoted it out of context >>
I actually didn't think I had done that, but I apologize if you feel I've misrepresented you.
August 22, 2015 at 18:21 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Brent wrote:
<< something is going to detonate in 15 minutes and it doesn't matter how well we planned the week. I actually feel more clarity in those moments because I can see it should be my top focus. >>
Yes, days like that are the "easy" days. There's stress to get the thing done, but it's not nearly as overwhelming (to me, anyway) as those days when there are lots of small, medium, and large requests all important in their own way and all clamoring for attention.
<< Despite what Stephen Covey and others say about doing the big rocks first, I have found that if you don't "sweep" the sand away often, you will be buried quickly.>>
I really like the way you articulated that -- I think you hit the nail on the head.
<< I'm leaning toward the final question of "What will I do or start next?" simply because it evokes the feeling of the determination "get on and do it" that Chris mentioned but also by asking the question while looking at my list proves that I'm in control of what I'm choosing rather than the more reactive latest and loudest approach that is so easy to fall into in our profession. >>
That's been exactly my experience with FVP, too. Using a different question to nudge the "standing out" process in the right direction really gives me total control over what I'm doing. It helps me find the right things to focus on: quickly and effectively. It's very simple and very low overhead. It also eliminates the resistance to the hard stuff -- or greatly reduces it.
<< something is going to detonate in 15 minutes and it doesn't matter how well we planned the week. I actually feel more clarity in those moments because I can see it should be my top focus. >>
Yes, days like that are the "easy" days. There's stress to get the thing done, but it's not nearly as overwhelming (to me, anyway) as those days when there are lots of small, medium, and large requests all important in their own way and all clamoring for attention.
<< Despite what Stephen Covey and others say about doing the big rocks first, I have found that if you don't "sweep" the sand away often, you will be buried quickly.>>
I really like the way you articulated that -- I think you hit the nail on the head.
<< I'm leaning toward the final question of "What will I do or start next?" simply because it evokes the feeling of the determination "get on and do it" that Chris mentioned but also by asking the question while looking at my list proves that I'm in control of what I'm choosing rather than the more reactive latest and loudest approach that is so easy to fall into in our profession. >>
That's been exactly my experience with FVP, too. Using a different question to nudge the "standing out" process in the right direction really gives me total control over what I'm doing. It helps me find the right things to focus on: quickly and effectively. It's very simple and very low overhead. It also eliminates the resistance to the hard stuff -- or greatly reduces it.
August 22, 2015 at 18:28 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Liz I wrote:
<< It looks to me as if it would lead to physical or mental illness at worst or severe burnout at best. It looks to me as if the organization is dysfunctional. >>
Probably all true to some degree. :-)
<< The situation you describe seems to me to be unmanageable and unsustainable by any time management or other system. >>
FVP actually handled the day pretty well.
<< The second response means that you work to change (humanize, improve) the system. It has risks of failure or firing and requires administrative buy in and takes a lot of energy. … "Work" does not have to be as unbalanced and unsustainable as what you describe. >>
One thing I really like about my job is that my management chain, all the way up to VP, recognizes that we have these problems, and they are actively addressing them. For example, I've never before heard a VP-level manager in IT able to articulate how too much WIP paralyzes an organization and reduces its ability to get things done, and actively advocates (and practices himself) reducing WIP. And it's not just talk -- our whole org has been restructuring reporting structures and workgroups so we can be effective with an Agile Scrum model. Besides allowing our development teams to really focus, this also makes it plain and clear where we are overcommitted, and forces us to make the hard decisions to address it. Days like yesterday show that we still have work to do (!) but these kinds of changes are really encouraging and help keep me motivated.
<< (On a side note, I was puzzled that you increased the stress of your work day by running errands and checking in with family. >>
The errands were pretty important - taking vehicle to get repaired; picking it up at end of day; picking up books and supplies for my kids who are starting college this week. Deferring these would all have high negative impact. And it's important to my family and me that I check in a few times per day. :-)
<< It looks to me as if it would lead to physical or mental illness at worst or severe burnout at best. It looks to me as if the organization is dysfunctional. >>
Probably all true to some degree. :-)
<< The situation you describe seems to me to be unmanageable and unsustainable by any time management or other system. >>
FVP actually handled the day pretty well.
<< The second response means that you work to change (humanize, improve) the system. It has risks of failure or firing and requires administrative buy in and takes a lot of energy. … "Work" does not have to be as unbalanced and unsustainable as what you describe. >>
One thing I really like about my job is that my management chain, all the way up to VP, recognizes that we have these problems, and they are actively addressing them. For example, I've never before heard a VP-level manager in IT able to articulate how too much WIP paralyzes an organization and reduces its ability to get things done, and actively advocates (and practices himself) reducing WIP. And it's not just talk -- our whole org has been restructuring reporting structures and workgroups so we can be effective with an Agile Scrum model. Besides allowing our development teams to really focus, this also makes it plain and clear where we are overcommitted, and forces us to make the hard decisions to address it. Days like yesterday show that we still have work to do (!) but these kinds of changes are really encouraging and help keep me motivated.
<< (On a side note, I was puzzled that you increased the stress of your work day by running errands and checking in with family. >>
The errands were pretty important - taking vehicle to get repaired; picking it up at end of day; picking up books and supplies for my kids who are starting college this week. Deferring these would all have high negative impact. And it's important to my family and me that I check in a few times per day. :-)
August 22, 2015 at 19:04 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Chris wrote:
<< I find it's important to not let new things coming in interrupt what I'm doing if I can help it because there's an additional cost of switching supporting material to deal with different things. >>
Absolutely agree with you.
<< Hence queuing stuff on a list and staying on what you're on until some sensible checkpoint where you can easily pick it up again, if you're able to, is preferable. >>
Absolutely agree again. But this is one reason I like FVP so much. It automates the process so I don't have to think about it.
<< I find it's important to not let new things coming in interrupt what I'm doing if I can help it because there's an additional cost of switching supporting material to deal with different things. >>
Absolutely agree with you.
<< Hence queuing stuff on a list and staying on what you're on until some sensible checkpoint where you can easily pick it up again, if you're able to, is preferable. >>
Absolutely agree again. But this is one reason I like FVP so much. It automates the process so I don't have to think about it.
August 22, 2015 at 19:08 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
"The numbers I used were from yesterday. I grant that it *was* an extraordinary day, but I've had plenty of other days like that one. It wasn't a "doomsday" scenario. With FVP I felt quite on top of it."
Firstly, excellent, I'm glad it's providing something for you. But you know I'm not questioning what you're getting from FVP, right? I'm only responding here to your request for help understanding my thoughts to Brent, which I hope are now clear.
Secondly, we all have corner case days which are hectic. This is a normal thing.
"<< So once you've determined that something does need doing, knuckle down and get it done. Get off email, Lync, mute phone, get busy. >>
That doesn't work for me. There is too much to do that all wants attention. All of it is important (to somebody, at least). I've got to find the right balance between what is really important for ME to do, what's best for the business, what's best for my team, is the management request really needed or does somebody just need to check a box on a form."
Of course, but in my experience the sky doesn't fall in because someone has to wait 30 minutes for an email reply or for me to return their voicemail, and I get far more done by not constantly switching contexts to what is otherwise a constant stream of interruptions. With the very greatest of respect it does feel to me like you're allowing your reactive environment to push you around under a misaprehension that you're holding the fort together, and then perceiving your use of FVP as the solution to something which was already solved.
"<< You're massively over-analysing, which will cripple you. >>
Granted, that can be crippling. But I've tried the "just get it done" approach. There *is* great value there."
No, I'm being very clear about what I meant - don't let distractions push you around once you HAVE decided what needs to be done. How you decide that, well that's whatever works for you. My knowledge and experience of what I'm doing and how it fits into the wider business works for me 99% of the time. I keep a spreadsheet of things I'm working on so I can remember where they're up to and update it periodically, but that's just because I get them mixed up in my head and also want to track commercials (which also eliminates the need for a separate forecasting sheet, the "touch once" principle).
Anyway it's all food for thought isn't it. There's no right way in any of this, everyone should take inspiration from anything they read and find their own way. I simply caution against over-analysis and mistaking being very busy with a system for being very busy.
Chris
Firstly, excellent, I'm glad it's providing something for you. But you know I'm not questioning what you're getting from FVP, right? I'm only responding here to your request for help understanding my thoughts to Brent, which I hope are now clear.
Secondly, we all have corner case days which are hectic. This is a normal thing.
"<< So once you've determined that something does need doing, knuckle down and get it done. Get off email, Lync, mute phone, get busy. >>
That doesn't work for me. There is too much to do that all wants attention. All of it is important (to somebody, at least). I've got to find the right balance between what is really important for ME to do, what's best for the business, what's best for my team, is the management request really needed or does somebody just need to check a box on a form."
Of course, but in my experience the sky doesn't fall in because someone has to wait 30 minutes for an email reply or for me to return their voicemail, and I get far more done by not constantly switching contexts to what is otherwise a constant stream of interruptions. With the very greatest of respect it does feel to me like you're allowing your reactive environment to push you around under a misaprehension that you're holding the fort together, and then perceiving your use of FVP as the solution to something which was already solved.
"<< You're massively over-analysing, which will cripple you. >>
Granted, that can be crippling. But I've tried the "just get it done" approach. There *is* great value there."
No, I'm being very clear about what I meant - don't let distractions push you around once you HAVE decided what needs to be done. How you decide that, well that's whatever works for you. My knowledge and experience of what I'm doing and how it fits into the wider business works for me 99% of the time. I keep a spreadsheet of things I'm working on so I can remember where they're up to and update it periodically, but that's just because I get them mixed up in my head and also want to track commercials (which also eliminates the need for a separate forecasting sheet, the "touch once" principle).
Anyway it's all food for thought isn't it. There's no right way in any of this, everyone should take inspiration from anything they read and find their own way. I simply caution against over-analysis and mistaking being very busy with a system for being very busy.
Chris
August 22, 2015 at 22:14 |
Chris
Chris
Fascinating discussion.
I always have in the back of my mind my experiences as an operations officer in the Army. Seraphim's "doomsday scenario" would have been a quiet afternoon in that context.***
I have always since been working towards a method which would have enabled me to manage better the problems which I was faced with then. I think FVP is the first that I would see as actually being able to achieve that goal.
*** http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo
I always have in the back of my mind my experiences as an operations officer in the Army. Seraphim's "doomsday scenario" would have been a quiet afternoon in that context.***
I have always since been working towards a method which would have enabled me to manage better the problems which I was faced with then. I think FVP is the first that I would see as actually being able to achieve that goal.
*** http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo
August 22, 2015 at 22:27 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
I have an amusing image of a soldier with a missing lower leg about to go into hypovolemic shock, while a medic is holding a notebook and muttering "What do I want to do more than apply a tourniquet?... ... ... *flips page* ... ... ... *flips page* ... ... ..."
Chris
Chris
August 23, 2015 at 17:21 |
Chris
Chris
I haven't laughed so hard in ages! thanks for sharing Mark. One of my favorite movies from them is: Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Ladies and gentlemen..I only recently (about 2 weeks now) found this website and I must say the conversations, support, systems and love here is absolutely AWESOME! Wish the rest of the web was clean and safe like this board.
Anxiously awaiting the new book...maybe a little 'tease' as to what the new system is? ;-)
Ladies and gentlemen..I only recently (about 2 weeks now) found this website and I must say the conversations, support, systems and love here is absolutely AWESOME! Wish the rest of the web was clean and safe like this board.
Anxiously awaiting the new book...maybe a little 'tease' as to what the new system is? ;-)
August 24, 2015 at 0:26 |
Hayden Roberts
Hayden Roberts
Chris wrote:
<< Firstly, excellent, I'm glad it's providing something for you. But you know I'm not questioning what you're getting from FVP, right? I'm only responding here to your request for help understanding my thoughts to Brent, which I hope are now clear. >>
OK, that's clear now. I didn't get that impression at first.
<< Secondly, we all have corner case days which are hectic. This is a normal thing. >>
Yes, which is why I expect my time management method to handle it gracefully. Just like any IT system should handle corner cases gracefully, and not simply grind to a halt, crash, etc.
<< With the very greatest of respect it does feel to me like you're allowing your reactive environment to push you around under a misaprehension that you're holding the fort together, and then perceiving your use of FVP as the solution to something which was already solved. >>
Let me just say you aren't the first to offer such an assessment of my world and the way I deal with it. :-) I sincerely appreciate the comments because it offers helpful material for self-reflection. But I honestly don't think I'm doing that.
<< I'm being very clear about what I meant - don't let distractions push you around once you HAVE decided what needs to be done. >>
In general, I agree with this. But if it's taken as a strict rule, it can easily bog down. Cf. SFv3. I prefer to flexibility of FVP, which helps me assess the interruptions, act on the ones that need action, and defer the ones that can be deferred. Of course, FVP doesn't do this automatically, without any thought on my part -- but the way it presents the tasks to me is very helpful to remember and assess all the different open loops in context.
<< How you decide that, well that's whatever works for you. My knowledge and experience of what I'm doing and how it fits into the wider business works for me 99% of the time. >>
I think most of us still need some kind of structure for managing our work. For example:
<< I keep a spreadsheet of things I'm working on so I can remember where they're up to and update it periodically >>
Like I said, and like YOU said, whatever works!! I am glad this works for you. We each need to find the systems and structures that match our needs and our way of thinking.
<< Anyway it's all food for thought isn't it. There's no right way in any of this, everyone should take inspiration from anything they read and find their own way. >>
No argument there! :-)
<< I simply caution against over-analysis and mistaking being very busy with a system for being very busy. >>
That's good advice. The point I have been trying to make about FVP is that it does what it does with very low overhead, allowing me to focus on the work itself. FVP itself just sort of fades into the background. I've never used a work method that is so effective, so simple, and so unobtrusive. It just lets me think and focus and get things done.
And if I have neglected to say it before: Thanks for the discussion, Chris! :-)
<< Firstly, excellent, I'm glad it's providing something for you. But you know I'm not questioning what you're getting from FVP, right? I'm only responding here to your request for help understanding my thoughts to Brent, which I hope are now clear. >>
OK, that's clear now. I didn't get that impression at first.
<< Secondly, we all have corner case days which are hectic. This is a normal thing. >>
Yes, which is why I expect my time management method to handle it gracefully. Just like any IT system should handle corner cases gracefully, and not simply grind to a halt, crash, etc.
<< With the very greatest of respect it does feel to me like you're allowing your reactive environment to push you around under a misaprehension that you're holding the fort together, and then perceiving your use of FVP as the solution to something which was already solved. >>
Let me just say you aren't the first to offer such an assessment of my world and the way I deal with it. :-) I sincerely appreciate the comments because it offers helpful material for self-reflection. But I honestly don't think I'm doing that.
<< I'm being very clear about what I meant - don't let distractions push you around once you HAVE decided what needs to be done. >>
In general, I agree with this. But if it's taken as a strict rule, it can easily bog down. Cf. SFv3. I prefer to flexibility of FVP, which helps me assess the interruptions, act on the ones that need action, and defer the ones that can be deferred. Of course, FVP doesn't do this automatically, without any thought on my part -- but the way it presents the tasks to me is very helpful to remember and assess all the different open loops in context.
<< How you decide that, well that's whatever works for you. My knowledge and experience of what I'm doing and how it fits into the wider business works for me 99% of the time. >>
I think most of us still need some kind of structure for managing our work. For example:
<< I keep a spreadsheet of things I'm working on so I can remember where they're up to and update it periodically >>
Like I said, and like YOU said, whatever works!! I am glad this works for you. We each need to find the systems and structures that match our needs and our way of thinking.
<< Anyway it's all food for thought isn't it. There's no right way in any of this, everyone should take inspiration from anything they read and find their own way. >>
No argument there! :-)
<< I simply caution against over-analysis and mistaking being very busy with a system for being very busy. >>
That's good advice. The point I have been trying to make about FVP is that it does what it does with very low overhead, allowing me to focus on the work itself. FVP itself just sort of fades into the background. I've never used a work method that is so effective, so simple, and so unobtrusive. It just lets me think and focus and get things done.
And if I have neglected to say it before: Thanks for the discussion, Chris! :-)
August 24, 2015 at 2:13 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Hayden Roberts wrote:
<< Ladies and gentlemen..I only recently (about 2 weeks now) found this website and I must say the conversations, support, systems and love here is absolutely AWESOME! Wish the rest of the web was clean and safe like this board. >>
Hear, hear! :-) and Welcome!
<< Ladies and gentlemen..I only recently (about 2 weeks now) found this website and I must say the conversations, support, systems and love here is absolutely AWESOME! Wish the rest of the web was clean and safe like this board. >>
Hear, hear! :-) and Welcome!
August 24, 2015 at 6:08 |
Seraphim
Seraphim
Hayden Roberts:
<< Anxiously awaiting the new book...maybe a little 'tease' as to what the new system is? >>
The book is about productivity in general rather than time management. I do mention one possible system, which is a "no list" system. But throughout the book I stress that the important thing is to find a time management system that works for you and then stick to it. Which is more or less the message of this thread!
<< Anxiously awaiting the new book...maybe a little 'tease' as to what the new system is? >>
The book is about productivity in general rather than time management. I do mention one possible system, which is a "no list" system. But throughout the book I stress that the important thing is to find a time management system that works for you and then stick to it. Which is more or less the message of this thread!
August 24, 2015 at 7:42 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Brent: Seraphim already beat me to it, but I wanted to say how much I liked your take on the sand-and-rocks analogy. I am NOT an IT manager, so I can't add any useful advice. But I have been stumbling over rocks and picking sand out of my ears for quite some time. It is a difficult balancing act, and Covey's story doesn't really do it justice.
In the Covey story, the sand doesn't go into the jar until you want it to. In real life, sand is much more assertive!
Mark: Thank you for posting that video. I can't actually watch videos while I'm in the office, but I remember that sketch (some version of it, anyway) and the comments alone were hilarious.
In the Covey story, the sand doesn't go into the jar until you want it to. In real life, sand is much more assertive!
Mark: Thank you for posting that video. I can't actually watch videos while I'm in the office, but I remember that sketch (some version of it, anyway) and the comments alone were hilarious.
August 24, 2015 at 18:36 |
JulieBulie
JulieBulie
<< If it needs doing, get on and do it. Fit other stuff around it. Be prepared to shift priorities as situations demand, but don't compromise your commitments in the process >>
What do you do, personally, when you have 20-25 major tasks competing for your attention, several of which are part of large projects where several teams will be blocked if you fail to follow through, others are of high value to the business or personally, and you are under tremendous pressure to get them ALL done, or move them forward significantly, TODAY? When a handful of them weren't priorities at all yesterday, but suddenly have become emergencies? When most of them can't be done by myself alone but involve coordination with several other team members, vendors, customers, and other stakeholders? (All while dealing with all the other stuff, like several hours of meetings scattered through the day, emails, interruptions, checking on the family, running an errand or two, commuting to/from work, etc.)
I can understand your approach when switching between 3-5 major tasks, or even 8-10 major tasks, but I don't see how you can just "get on and do it" when faced with the kind of thing I am describing. How do you prioritize? How do you decide, in face of changing priorities, circumstances, etc., what "good enough" looks like? How do you decide what to drop completely?
I will be happy to be proven wrong, but I imagine your answer will be somewhat more nuanced than "get on and do it".
<< Identify what needs doing each week and each day up front, and try to finish each day and each week having done them >>
That is generally good advice, and I do focus on a handful of things I want to be sure to get done each day and week, but that accounts for less than half of what I might actually get done on any particular day or week -- a lot of it needs to flex based on a chaotic environment. I don't see that this advice tells a person HOW to go about doing this. I can think of a dozen books and seminars that do try to tell a person how to do this - perhaps you have a simpler answer?