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« "Secrets of Productive People" | Main | Any special recommendations for teachers? (Reader's query) »
Wednesday
Feb102016

Effect on the Brain

In a comment I wrote:

“I’ve experimented with one day dismissal a lot. In fact the system I’m using at the moment, which is proving incredibly effective, is a one day dismissal system.

“My tip would be to forget the bit about being catch-all as well. I feed each day’s sheet through the shredder as soon as the day is over. The effect on one’s brain is quite remarkable.”

Seraphim asked:

“Could you elaborate on this a bit more? I am intrigued.”

What is the effect of feeding each day’s sheet through a shredder?

First of all, it brings about a sense of completion. The next day starts with a clean sheet with nothing left over from the day before. Whatever work you were engaged in has to be re-created.

Your mind is not however re-creating the work from scratch. During each day paths in the brain are either strengthened, amended or abandoned. This means that one’s work is always alive, relevant and creative.

This is a contrast to working off an old list, where creativity consists only in writing down yet more tasks on the list without actually taking action on them.

Let’s compare the thinking and action that goes with “catch all” and “no list” methods, which are the two extremes of continuing and one-day lists.

Catch all

The simplest type of catch-all system is where you just have an open list of tasks and circulate through it, doing the tasks that feel ready to do. At the beginning of each day what you are presented with is usually a long list which has been built up over a period of time, a matter of days, weeks or in some cases even months. At some stage you thought of a task and wrote it on the list. It may get done quickly, but a large number of these tasks will hang around on the list for days.

What your mind therefore has to do is to choose between anything up to 100 or more tasks - all of which you thought were a good idea at some stage in the past. You can only do one of these tasks at a time and very likely while you are doing that task even more are being added.

Your main motivation is to get rid of the tasks on the list. This of course can never actually be done so you always end the day with much the same number of tasks as you began it - frequently more.  Because you have such a large number of tasks to choose from your focus is poor and it’s difficult to build up good routines.

No-list

The simplest form of no-list system is just to write down the next thing you are going to do before you do it. The act of writing down the next action forces you to make a conscious decision about what to do, rather than just drift into something.

Your mind has no list to rely on, so what sort of tasks is it going to choose? It will probably come up with one of the following;

  • The next task in an established routine
  • Something that is on your mind because you are currently working on it
  • A project you have previously decided will be your main focus for the day
  • An urgent project or task
  • Something which is causing you concern because it is overdue or in danger of becoming so
  • Something you make a conscious decision to do because you want to do it

Note that all these things relate to what matters at the moment. Your concern is with what you are actually involved in. At the end of the day you will have filled the day with stuff that is actually relevant and is within your capabilities to do in the time available.

Your brain therefore will be concentrated on the immediate reality of what is in your life, rather than diffused over a vast sea of possibilies, most of which will never happen.

 

See also:

An Effective No List System? - Yes!

Why No-List Systems Work

Reader Comments (41)

Mark - I suppose that No List would be a good approach for your own tasks where there are no outside commitment to anyone else. I still see the need for a catch all list for commitments made to others. These externally focused commitments could be in a list or in a calendar. Would you agree?
February 10, 2016 at 12:09 | Unregistered CommenterPaul B
I am also concerned with remembering all those things which other people have asked me to do, those which others are expecting me to or relying on me to do, and those things which have a context, like buying stationary supplies, or remembering all the things to talk with the builder about.

I do love starting the day with a fresh page, but I still like to ways to keep "capture', "context related", and "needs to be done on this date" lists (or memory joggers). I like getting everything in my head onto paper, and I like having ways to remind me of things. However, I'm fascinated to find out more. Where was the post this was first described?
February 10, 2016 at 12:39 | Unregistered CommenterSarah Jane
I think the main insight is that you don't confuse your list of memory joggers with your selection of the next task.

This reminds me of a theme from a year or two back, where the list existed but wasn't reviewed during the day.
February 10, 2016 at 13:31 | Unregistered CommenterWill
Paul B:

<< I still see the need for a catch all list for commitments made to others.>>

Why? What is it about commitments made to others that would cause you to forget about them? The usual reason we don't fulfill commitments made to others is that we put them on a long list of other commitments because we don't want to do them now and as a result try not to think about them and never get round to doing them.
February 10, 2016 at 15:19 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Sarah Jane:

<< I am also concerned with remembering all those things which other people have asked me to do, those which others are expecting me to or relying on me to do >>

See my reply to Paul B above.

<< and those things which have a context, like buying stationary supplies >>

If you are aware that you are running low on stationery supplies, I would have thought it would be on your mind and you were unlikely to forget it. Ordering supplies is in any case a matter of method and good routine - and would not normally be dependent on a to-do list.

<< remembering all the things to talk with the builder about >>

I would have thought it unlikely that you would put those on a to-do list whatever method you are using.

<< I do love starting the day with a fresh page, but I still like to ways to keep "capture', "context related", and "needs to be done on this date" lists (or memory joggers).>>

If by "context related" you mean something like a shopping list, then that's not what I'm talking about in this article. Scheduling things which need to be done on a particular date is fine - as long as you actually DO them on that date.

<< I like getting everything in my head onto paper, and I like having ways to remind me of things. However, I'm fascinated to find out more. Where was the post this was first described? >>

This is expanding on what I say in my book "Secrets of Productive People".
February 10, 2016 at 15:28 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Will:

<< I think the main insight is that you don't confuse your list of memory joggers with your selection of the next task. >>

Yes, but it's also important that your memory joggers are there to remind you to DO something then and there - not to think about doing it sometime or other. Otherwise your memory joggers just become another expanding list of stuff which you can't keep up with.
February 10, 2016 at 15:35 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I too am worried I will forget things I have committed to do for others. I think personality type is also relevant. I find knowing I have written something down I have committed to do for someone relieves stress. If I had to work thinking about whether or not I will remember these commitments it would be draining on me and reduce productivity. Maybe I need to build up this skill.

Gerry
February 10, 2016 at 17:01 | Registered CommenterGerry
Gerry:

<< I find knowing I have written something down I have committed to do for someone relieves stress. >>

Strangely enough my experience is that using a no-list method I am *more* reliable at delivering things I have committed to do for someone. This is probably because instead of writing them down for an indefinite future date, I now just get on with them. The result is that I don't have to remember them at all. As I've said several times in other threads, "no-list" methods are not exercises in memory.

If it's something I've committed to do on a *definite* future date, then I would put it in my calendar, where of course it would get done as soon as that date was reached.

So my question is why do you need to write down your commitment to someone else - why don't you just do it? If you write down these commitments you will accumulate more and more of them, precisely because you don't do them immediately and instead put them off to the future..
February 10, 2016 at 18:18 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Mark,

Great idea about the use of the calendar, it seems like integrating a calendar into time management is an idea some embrace while other resist, but for many things it makes lots of sense.

<<So my question is why do you need to write down your commitment to someone else - why don't you just do it? If you write down these commitments you will accumulate more and more of them, precisely because you don't do them immediately and instead put them off to the future.. >>

The answer to this is that many times the items are almost mini projects that take hours or days to complete. I agree if the item is quick and simple it is best to just get it done immediately.

Gerry
February 10, 2016 at 19:28 | Registered CommenterGerry
My work context is that I have multiple demands coming into me from multiple people, nearly all the time, and there is no way I can do them all immediately. My role also involves being available at any time for an emergency type context, which can occur several times in a day.

I need processes that hold where I am at while I deal with the emergency task and ensure I am keeping track of what is most important and/or possible to do.

My experience is that if I don't write down what's coming in I do forget. So I use an aspect of the Do It Tomorrow process. I have a two days to a page planner. One side of it I use to capture all the incoming tasks, ideas, requests, etc. if it's something to be done today I put it on a daily list on the other page, which also has a schedule. If it's really urgent I mark it in some way.

Then through the day on a big sticky note I have a very short SMEMA type list which I pull out of my head. I review that regularly through the day to ensure I am working on what is important In the context of all that is going in. When I have spaces, I go back to my daily list and yesterday's capture list to see what can be scheduled in my planner or digital calendar, or put on context lists that I have in another notebook. I travel and move around a lot and paper often works best for me.

I find that writing things down keeps my head clear for managing what is in front of me. I regularly have to decide what is possible for me to do, what won't get done and what can be delegated.

I often don't refer to my lists and use memory and I usually start afresh about once a month. But I do find having my lists/ memory joggers there helps me focus on the present moment knowing the rest is held. They are also what help me relax at night, rather than churning it all in my head.

Always ready to get a new perspective and try something new. So really interested in the detail of the new process you are finding is working so well, to see if it fits for me. Any idea of timelines as to when we might hear about it?

Also wondering where your thinking is with FVP, which I understood you developed after writing Secrets of Productive People.
February 10, 2016 at 21:19 | Unregistered CommenterSarah Jane
Thanks for this, Mark. I am still intrigued, but wary, for the same reasons as those who already commented.

Here's a practical question ... Practical for my kids, anyway! :-) (I've been introducing the older ones to your systems.)

How would you handle something like a list of college reading and homework assignments, in a system like this? For example, several long reading assignments, one or two essay projects, a collaborative engineering project, several problem sets, and preparation for pending examinations. All the assignments have deadlines, some this week, some next week, maybe one in a month or so. Then throw in a handful of optional reading assignments just to make it interesting, and also preparations for a coming student club meeting, and scholarship application forms coming due.

Thanks!!
February 11, 2016 at 4:54 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
>> Why? What is it about commitments made to others that would cause you to forget about them?

I cannot speak for Paul B, it's not that there is something different about commitments to others or even any other sort of list that causes me to forget, just that up to a certain point, my mind, and some others, only remembers so much. also, earlier I had a similar question and gave a list of things to do for a project. which made it look like I COULD easily remember all steps of that project. rather, it was all made up as typical type of steps. might have several projects going at once and not at all remember all steps, so useful to have them on a list.

I think what I have difficulty understanding, is where the no list is put to use if all lists that are needed are on project or calendar or other places, then what is the no list that we are talking about? is it the list that is used to decide what is the next thing to do, including what I just think of and DO remember and also what I need to go to list to look up?
February 11, 2016 at 5:37 | Registered CommentermatthewS
Mark, I get your overall direction you want to go to, but I think there may be practical issues a person can run into, especially if you are managing a couple of people or groups.

Let me give an example of a typical day for me:
- Meeting at 10 with an employee. He asks me for a raise
- At 11 another meeting with operations where they ask for additional small spend in the warehouse. (Not very a big cost in the grander scheme of things, but important for them)

I am lucky and have no meetings in the afternoon and can sit and work on my tasks.

I remember (luckily), that an employee has asked me for a raise. I start thinking about this. I start looking at the expenses for the year and think it may work, but I need to check in with HR as well. I need to set up a meeting with her...but somebody comes into my office with a personal crisis.

An hour later, I get back to the employee thing and set up a calendar invite with HR for the next day. OK, this medium sized task is on track and I have a meeting to remind me of it tomorrow.

BUT, I am almost sure I would have forgotten that in my second meeting I promised to look at extra spend for operations if I did not write this down on a catch all list.

Yes, operations will remind me if I did not get back to them in the near future, but I hate that. It lets me look unprofessional and like someone who does not have an effective personal management system. It would also not have been front of mind for me as this is not a major expense for the company. (I have a lot of these requests floating around in my task list and it is impossible to just do them all.)

I generate about a page a day of notes/tasks and I know for a fact that I will not be able to finish it all, but at least it is captured somewhere in order for me to consider them and then not do rather than forget to just forget.
February 11, 2016 at 6:27 | Unregistered CommenterNico
A catch all system is extremely helpful for me in dealing effectively with daily incoming items. Some of them will need to be done, some of them will not. Without such a system I simply get swamped after a few days and this creates stress. I wonder how a 'no list' system deals with this sort of issue?
February 11, 2016 at 6:54 | Unregistered CommenterLeon
Gerry:

<< The answer to this is that many times the items are almost mini projects that take hours or days to complete. I agree if the item is quick and simple it is best to just get it done immediately. >>

But surely the best way to remember them is to start doing them? Anything you are actively working on is going to be at the forefront of your mind. You're going to have to start actively working on them sometime. What time is better than today?
February 11, 2016 at 10:20 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Sarah Jane:

My first and most important point is that if what you are doing at the moment is working for you then keep it. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" is a principle I heartily endorse.

So my question back to you is are there any parts of the system which you have described which don't work well?
February 11, 2016 at 10:27 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Sarah Jane:

Sorry, I forgot to answer you query about FVP. The problem with FVP (as with all catch-all systems) is that the list tends to expand beyond what one can actually do. I've never found an answer to this, other than ruthless weeding. Unfortunately once someone has put something on their beloved list, they seem to be remarkably reluctant to remove it again!
February 11, 2016 at 10:32 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I don't see that a catch all list is a particular problem for the no-list approach. So long as the catch all list is a reference and not used to drive action. At some point, you worry that you may have forgotten something and your next task is to focus on checking the list. Then, having checked the list, you go back to the no-list approach and decide what to do next.

Amongst other things, this allows you to use your catch all as a buffer against the constant stream of urgent tasks which will disrupt your "next task" decisions unless they are safely tucked away.
February 11, 2016 at 10:35 | Unregistered CommenterWill
Seraphim,

<< How would you handle something like a list of college reading and homework assignments, in a system like this? For example, several long reading assignments, one or two essay projects, a collaborative engineering project, several problem sets, and preparation for pending examinations. All the assignments have deadlines, some this week, some next week, maybe one in a month or so. Then throw in a handful of optional reading assignments just to make it interesting, and also preparations for a coming student club meeting, and scholarship application forms coming due. >>

How much of this would you put on a to-do list anyway? You're not going to list all the reading assignments on the to-do list, are you? You'd refer to the assignment lists, etc, and probably diarise a schedule of start and finish dates for them. That would be exactly the same with a "catch-all" system and a "no-list" system.

Basically the to-do list tasks you describe here are:

Read book
Write essay
Work on project
Do problems
Prepare for exams
Prepare club meeting
Complete scholarship application forms

Those are all pretty standard student routine actions. How long did it take you to write that list? I think I could probably have written it myself without even knowing your children's circumstances.

What advantage does a catch-all system have here?
February 11, 2016 at 10:43 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Will, I agree. This is my view as well. To put my thoughts to paper is key to my sanity! Like Einstein said: "Paper is to write things down that we need to remember. Our brains are used to think."
February 11, 2016 at 10:48 | Unregistered CommenterNico
matthewS:

<< up to a certain point, my mind, and some others, only remembers so much >>

As I've frequently said, the "no list" method is not intended to be an exercise in memory. If you think that it's a matter of memorizing your to-do list rather than writing it down, you are missing the whole point.
February 11, 2016 at 10:49 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I could go on answering individual queries, but I'm beginning to realise that there's a fundamental misunderstanding here - which is partly my fault for not explaining it clearly enough.

I've said over and over again that a "no-list" system is not an exercise in memory. That means that anything you NEED to remember should be written down. I'm not trying to stop you from doing normal client/staff/project documentation and scheduling. Far from it. I write stuff down all the time.

What I am trying to do is produce an alternative to the huge expanding to-do list of the type which the commenters on this site were always complaining about in the past. What I've found is that I don't need one in my work - and that I actually have better focus without it. The same seems to have been the experience of some of the people on this list who've tried my earlier "no list" methods.

What we've found is that the best to-do list is the one in our head which results from our knowledge of the projects that we are actively involved in. That keeps us focused in a way which a huge list is never going to.
February 11, 2016 at 11:09 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Nico:

<< To put my thoughts to paper is key to my sanity! Like Einstein said: "Paper is to write things down that we need to remember. Our brains are used to think." >>

The odd thing is that you've used the Einstein quote with the opposite meaning to what it says. You're saying you put your thoughts on paper, while Einstein says he uses his brain to think. He says he uses paper only for what he NEEDS to remember, which is exactly what I'm saying.
February 11, 2016 at 11:27 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I shall be writing a bit more on "No Lists" in tomorrow's main blog post.
February 11, 2016 at 12:47 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Hi Mark,

I find all your recent work on 'no-lists' fascinating. Are they covered in your new book?

I think you're right - most people do this anyway - doing what they think important at that time .... and then get stressed because the stuff on their to do list doesn't get done!

Looking forward to tomorrow's blog post!
February 11, 2016 at 13:26 | Unregistered CommenterDAZ
Back to the original point on shredding the list.

By a coincidence, I spent a fun few hours on Tuesday at the Frank Auerbach exhibition at Tate Britain. For his first decade or so, he would leave all his paint on the canvas, building up weird, three dimensional pictures as he reworked and re-reworked his ideas on the surface.

Then he switched and took to scraping the canvas clean every day and starting afresh, building on the insights he had achieved in previous versions, developing the picture over weeks and months. I see a parallel to scraping our daily to do list clean and starting every day with a fresh appreciation of the tasks ahead.
February 11, 2016 at 13:30 | Unregistered CommenterWill
DAZ:

There's a whole chapter on the subject, yes.
February 11, 2016 at 13:31 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Mark Forster wrote: "Why? What is it about commitments made to others that would cause you to forget about them? The usual reason we don't fulfill commitments made to others is that we put them on a long list of other commitments because we don't want to do them now and as a result try not to think about them and never get round to doing them."

I don't think it is a case that I "don't want to do them now", but rather that it is not possible to do them immediately based on other commitments already in play. So, the new commitment goes into the funnel to be done a little later. If I do not capture the new commitments into a list, then I fear that I will forget them. Since many of these commitments are made to my boss, it would be unwise not to keep them on a list...and the question of whether I desire to do them or not is not really an issue.
February 11, 2016 at 17:52 | Unregistered CommenterPaul B
Paul B:

<< The new commitment goes into the funnel to be done a little later. If I do not capture the new commitments into a list, then I fear that I will forget them. Since many of these commitments are made to my boss, it would be unwise not to keep them on a list...and the question of whether I desire to do them or not is not really an issue. >>

The key words in your paragraph above are "a little later". If they are actually done a little later, then there's no problem. The problem arises if they turn into a huge undifferentiated list.

I'll repeat what I said in a comment on this thread earlier today:

"I've said over and over again that a "no-list" system is not an exercise in memory. That means that anything you NEED to remember should be written down. I'm not trying to stop you from doing normal client/staff/project documentation and scheduling. Far from it. I write stuff down all the time.

"What I am trying to do is produce an alternative to the huge expanding to-do list of the type which the commenters on this site were always complaining about in the past. What I've found is that I don't need one in my work - and that I actually have better focus without it."
February 11, 2016 at 17:59 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Will wrote:
<< Then he switched and took to scraping the canvas clean every day and starting afresh, building on the insights he had achieved in previous versions, developing the picture over weeks and months. >>

Thanks for posting that - very interesting!
February 11, 2016 at 19:47 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Mark Forster -

Thanks for this very interesting discussion!

You wrote:
<< How much of this would you put on a to-do list anyway? You're not going to list all the reading assignments on the to-do list, are you? >>

Actually, personally, that *is* what I would do. All the things I mentioned would comprise maybe 20-30 individual items on an FVP list (for example). If I am using a catch-all approach, I like putting this level of detail in the one list, indicating the deadline, so I can see all my workload and commitments in one place. It can be very effective -- even though it does have all the drawbacks you have been describing.


<< You'd refer to the assignment lists, etc, and probably diarise a schedule of start and finish dates for them. >>

Actually, I wouldn't do it that way. I have *tried* doing it that way, but for me, it tends to make the overall workload invisible and un-engaging. Specific tasks get my attention and draw me in much more effectively. For example, "Read Engineering Ch 3 - due Friday" and "Engineering Exam on Tuesday - get ready" get my attention and draw me in a lot more effectively than "Engineering homework".

<< What advantage does a catch-all system have here? >>

I'm not arguing that a catch-all system has any advantages here. I agree with your overall assessment -- catch-all lists do have the weaknesses you describe.

I was really just trying to get a better understanding the no-list approach, and how you envision keeping track of details and not dropping things in a typical student's life, using a no-list approach.

You've made it clear that you didn't intend that people would just rely on memory for these kinds of things. So in the end, I think you are saying, one should develop systems as needed to support the specific needs of one's work. Keep details in project files, or in a school-assignment tracker, or whatever works. Keep asking questions and building systems till you find what works. And avoid a central catch-all as your central model, because it tends to make your work go stale and become overwhelming, leading to a focus on trivia (and everything else you wrote in the original post.)

When I've tried to do this in the past, I always ended up developing some kind of catch-all anyway. Things would pile up in my Outlook Tasks, or in my email inbox, or in my calendar, or in stickies on my wall, or a combination of all these.

So, to arrive at my own system for handling my tendency to create catch-all lists that get stale and overwhelming, I can follow the questioning approach in your new book (ch. 5 and elsewhere). I can ask myself "Why do I keep building up these catch-all lists in so many different forms?" There are lots of reasons. I don't want to forget important deadlines / commitments. I don't want to forget brainstorms and ideas. I am easily excited by new ideas and don't want to lose them (but in retrospect many seem stale or silly later). Hmm, that's all I can think of right now.

So then, following the guidance in Ch. 5, I can ask myself the same question tomorrow (without looking at today's answers); then repeat it again for another day or two. Then look back and see what patterns I find. Then see if I can develop a system to address the real needs that I uncover. Perhaps even develop an experiment to see if the new system actually addresses the need (ch. 39). Etc.

In my students' world, we could ask, "Why do I keep staying up late to finish my homework?" (or whatever). And then start asking "how" questions, and ultimately follow this process to arrive at an effective system to stay on top of my homework.

Is that the kind of thing you are driving at here?
February 11, 2016 at 20:17 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Mark, you say that the things you need to remember needs to be written down.

Pratically, where must I write this down? This normally goes into a catch all list.

My catch all list is a mixture of meeting notes, tasks, ideas and insights.

This is a handy list of things for me to review on a daily basis.

Normally I review the last 5 days of catch all items and this give me a very good idea of what has been going on in my life and what I should be doing. I would also then move items to a project list if applicable.

My thoughts is to continue this review, but then after the review start working the no-list method.

My catch all list is thus not necessarily a task list, but more a record of my thoughts and experiences which can guide me to know what to do next.
February 11, 2016 at 21:04 | Unregistered CommenterNico
Seraphim:

<< Is that the kind of thing you are driving at here? >>

Yes, you've summed it up very well.
February 11, 2016 at 21:17 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Nico:

<< My catch all list is thus not necessarily a task list, but more a record of my thoughts and experiences which can guide me to know what to do next. >>

When I talk about a "catch-all" list, what I mean is a "catch-all" to-do list on the lines of AF, FVP, etc. Your description of your list seems to be something different from that.

I've written more about this in tomorrow's blog post (to be published at 7am UK Time).
February 11, 2016 at 21:20 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Nico - Your catch-all sounds more like a simple no-rules journal, which Mark describes very elegantly here: http://markforster.squarespace.com/forum/post/2547537#post2547564

Here is a snippet:
<< Personally I do have a journal, which I keep in a soft-cover unlined Moleskine. It's one of my most treasured possessions. I date each day and basically write down anything that I want to, drawing a line under each separate note. I frequently read back in it, but can't be bothered to index it or even write page numbers. There are no rules. >>
February 11, 2016 at 21:51 | Registered CommenterSeraphim
Seraphim/Mark, yes I know my system is really a "catch all", but it is more focused on work activities. Not a journal. Once an item disappears over the 5 day limit it is gone. I will not look at it again.

I do work this list fvp style and it works well except that I also suffer then from overload and the reason why I like your no list idea. But I cannot see that I can abandon my catch all. I need to incorporate this into the no-list system.
February 12, 2016 at 3:14 | Unregistered CommenterNico
Nico:

The problem is that a "no-list" system that is being fed from a "catch-all" system is just a rather more complicated form of "catch-all" system.

A "no list" system is intended to be fed from "dynamic lists" as described in "Secrets of Productive People". I've written a bit about them in the comments to today's article on the blog "What is a no-list system?" and I intend to write more in tomorrow's article.
February 12, 2016 at 9:42 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
I need to re-emphasize the proviso that applies to all my systems:

If you have a method that works perfectly well for you, then keep it. Just because I think up a new system doesn't mean you have to adopt it!
February 12, 2016 at 9:51 | Registered CommenterMark Forster
Mark,
Clarifying question: When you talk about getting to work on commitments immediately, do you mean before or after your "no list" list reaches a point of being ready for new items?
February 13, 2016 at 15:08 | Unregistered CommenterAustin
Austin:

I mean when the list is ready for new items.
February 13, 2016 at 18:14 | Registered CommenterMark Forster

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