Discussion Forum > Mark's influences
If you really scour through the blog you can find lots of influences, but I think Mark has been in the game so early and for so long, and especially, he has spent a lot of time seeing and trying things, that I doubt he could accurately assess his influences with any degree of real accuracy and certainty.
As these things go, there are waves of various things that were very much in vogue and that have now drifted in and out of popularity. Inbox management used to be very big, and I do think that a lot of what Mark has spoken on in the past has dealt with how to manage the incoming work. Indeed, in some sense, managing incoming work is a huge component of what Mark has discussed across all of his books.
If I were going to give people a reading list from Mark, I'd probably say that SoPP is the "one" book that they should read if they don't read any of the others. I think that SoPP is a sort of foundation that is important even to properly understand how to do long list processing, as Mark's work on long lists really matured only after his work on no-list.
However, I still find DREAMS to be a really fun read, and I like it a lot. I think there's a lot in there about a "good life," too. I think it's the book that best delves into the deeper questions of how to qualify for yourself what "good life" even means, and what it looks like, and how to have a proper outlook on your present position relative to your future. But I think for many people, they wouldn't read that book and understand what the value in it is, so it's the sort of book that I think would benefit from "group reading."
His other books are fun reads as well, but those are my two favorites. I think DIT would be a good selection if someone were just looking for a recipe a la GTD to deal with their incoming workload, but it's not the book that I think pushes things to the "next level."
As these things go, there are waves of various things that were very much in vogue and that have now drifted in and out of popularity. Inbox management used to be very big, and I do think that a lot of what Mark has spoken on in the past has dealt with how to manage the incoming work. Indeed, in some sense, managing incoming work is a huge component of what Mark has discussed across all of his books.
If I were going to give people a reading list from Mark, I'd probably say that SoPP is the "one" book that they should read if they don't read any of the others. I think that SoPP is a sort of foundation that is important even to properly understand how to do long list processing, as Mark's work on long lists really matured only after his work on no-list.
However, I still find DREAMS to be a really fun read, and I like it a lot. I think there's a lot in there about a "good life," too. I think it's the book that best delves into the deeper questions of how to qualify for yourself what "good life" even means, and what it looks like, and how to have a proper outlook on your present position relative to your future. But I think for many people, they wouldn't read that book and understand what the value in it is, so it's the sort of book that I think would benefit from "group reading."
His other books are fun reads as well, but those are my two favorites. I think DIT would be a good selection if someone were just looking for a recipe a la GTD to deal with their incoming workload, but it's not the book that I think pushes things to the "next level."
June 29, 2023 at 19:37 |
Aaron Hsu
Aaron Hsu
Aaron:
I'd have to search this forum, but a few years ago I read/did DREAMS and found it to be a wonderful experience.
I'd have to search this forum, but a few years ago I read/did DREAMS and found it to be a wonderful experience.
June 29, 2023 at 20:19 |
avrum
avrum
My influences? Hmm...
I find that very difficult to answer. I don't actually read very many time management books by other people, but when I do what usually happens is that I find some point or idea that provokes a reaction in me (usually but not invariably negative) and then "How could that be done better?"
One of the first time management books I read was called "Do It Now". I can't remember who the author was and there seem to be a lot of books with that title at the moment, none of which I think is the one I read. I quickly decided that "do it now" was an unworkable principle, but that raised the question of why it was unworkable and what one could do about it. "Get Everything Done" was the result.
Also it's not easy to tell whether I was influenced by some authors, or whether we were both influenced by a common source. The "Pomodoro" technique for instance is similar to my timed bursts. "Pomodoro" was published long after GED but whether the author had read my book, I've no idea. And timed bursts were well-known long before either of us wrote about them - but in the context of sports and fitness training.
I find that very difficult to answer. I don't actually read very many time management books by other people, but when I do what usually happens is that I find some point or idea that provokes a reaction in me (usually but not invariably negative) and then "How could that be done better?"
One of the first time management books I read was called "Do It Now". I can't remember who the author was and there seem to be a lot of books with that title at the moment, none of which I think is the one I read. I quickly decided that "do it now" was an unworkable principle, but that raised the question of why it was unworkable and what one could do about it. "Get Everything Done" was the result.
Also it's not easy to tell whether I was influenced by some authors, or whether we were both influenced by a common source. The "Pomodoro" technique for instance is similar to my timed bursts. "Pomodoro" was published long after GED but whether the author had read my book, I've no idea. And timed bursts were well-known long before either of us wrote about them - but in the context of sports and fitness training.
June 30, 2023 at 0:41 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Re Do it Now, you are possibly referring to William Knaus' book from the '90s?
July 2, 2023 at 18:35 |
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Jacqueline
Yes, I think that's the one. Thanks!
Yes, I think that's the one. Thanks!
July 2, 2023 at 18:45 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
avrum:
First a few bits answering directly to your questions.
> I hear bits of David Allen (intuition), but that's about it.
I think this is not because either DA nor MF were copying from each other. Rather they both have (amidst other things) a background in life coaching, and a lot of experience at it.
Also, at least GED but maybe Dreams as well were published before GTD.
Here is a quote from GED that just reads like pure GTD:
>> Write out a list of all the areas of commitment and activity you have in your life. Include your work and your personal life. Break them down as far as possible so that you have categorised all your areas of endeavour. Don’t forget to include all commitments you have – to parents, children, friends, charities, etc. Also include rest and recreational activities. In other words make a detailed list of everything that you feel has a claim on your attention at the moment, regardless of whether you are currently succeeding in giving it any attention or not.
Here is a quote from Dreams that talks more directly to the point of intuition:
>> Q: But this is a valid creation too. So what have you been creating here?
A: I have been finding out what it is to live life directly and in the moment. To be able to respond to life as I perceive it at the time, without trying to change the past or worrying about the future. This is what I think I have been aiming at all my life without being able to find it before.
I think that both aforementioned thinkers just did very good work in the same space (and time) and came largely to the same conclusions.
The "time surfing" author seems to draw from Zen Buddhism, which is even older than the various life coaching disciplines or, heck, Ben Franklin's "habits" planner.
I also think that there are considerable differences between DA's and MF's propositions, so again, I don't think anybody copied from anyone there.
> Finally, has Mark appeared on any podcasts?
I remember one such appearance on a podcast many, many years ago, when the sound quality would give away that these "teleseminars" where done over landlines…
All I remember from that thing is that MF stated that time management is something to be learned, not something you are born with or something that just happens. That was a light-bulb moment for me back then!
Regarding the question as a whole, I think MF mentioned somewhere here on the forums that he had learned to task-switch rapidly during his stint at the armed forces.
The original occurrence of the "strike trough and re-enter a task" motion probably came about, when MF worked his DIT with a pen and a paper task diary. I would say.
He mentioned on this forums somewhere that his AF1 inspiration came from the way he worked his prior systems ie. DIT. In fact, one could see DIT's Current Initiative as some sort of proto-AF.
There is also DWM, which was according to MF inspired by a TiVo film recording device. This is another parallel to DA, who had his "@" designation inspired by the way the Palm Pilot would sort lists. Both cases of close observance of an electronic device.
Regarding the books, I agree with Aaron Hsu. I must say reading his comment made me almost feel like I was reading my own thoughts.
I would express my appreciation of Dreams a little bit stronger, though.
First a few bits answering directly to your questions.
> I hear bits of David Allen (intuition), but that's about it.
I think this is not because either DA nor MF were copying from each other. Rather they both have (amidst other things) a background in life coaching, and a lot of experience at it.
Also, at least GED but maybe Dreams as well were published before GTD.
Here is a quote from GED that just reads like pure GTD:
>> Write out a list of all the areas of commitment and activity you have in your life. Include your work and your personal life. Break them down as far as possible so that you have categorised all your areas of endeavour. Don’t forget to include all commitments you have – to parents, children, friends, charities, etc. Also include rest and recreational activities. In other words make a detailed list of everything that you feel has a claim on your attention at the moment, regardless of whether you are currently succeeding in giving it any attention or not.
Here is a quote from Dreams that talks more directly to the point of intuition:
>> Q: But this is a valid creation too. So what have you been creating here?
A: I have been finding out what it is to live life directly and in the moment. To be able to respond to life as I perceive it at the time, without trying to change the past or worrying about the future. This is what I think I have been aiming at all my life without being able to find it before.
I think that both aforementioned thinkers just did very good work in the same space (and time) and came largely to the same conclusions.
The "time surfing" author seems to draw from Zen Buddhism, which is even older than the various life coaching disciplines or, heck, Ben Franklin's "habits" planner.
I also think that there are considerable differences between DA's and MF's propositions, so again, I don't think anybody copied from anyone there.
> Finally, has Mark appeared on any podcasts?
I remember one such appearance on a podcast many, many years ago, when the sound quality would give away that these "teleseminars" where done over landlines…
All I remember from that thing is that MF stated that time management is something to be learned, not something you are born with or something that just happens. That was a light-bulb moment for me back then!
Regarding the question as a whole, I think MF mentioned somewhere here on the forums that he had learned to task-switch rapidly during his stint at the armed forces.
The original occurrence of the "strike trough and re-enter a task" motion probably came about, when MF worked his DIT with a pen and a paper task diary. I would say.
He mentioned on this forums somewhere that his AF1 inspiration came from the way he worked his prior systems ie. DIT. In fact, one could see DIT's Current Initiative as some sort of proto-AF.
There is also DWM, which was according to MF inspired by a TiVo film recording device. This is another parallel to DA, who had his "@" designation inspired by the way the Palm Pilot would sort lists. Both cases of close observance of an electronic device.
Regarding the books, I agree with Aaron Hsu. I must say reading his comment made me almost feel like I was reading my own thoughts.
I would express my appreciation of Dreams a little bit stronger, though.
July 27, 2023 at 21:55 |
Christopher
Christopher
Dreams is my favorite. It's unlike anything I've ever read. I tried the process for a few enjoyable weeks, then stopped. 5 years later I found what I had written to describe my Future Self. I almost fell out of my chair. It was almost word-for-word what my life was now like. I still can't get over how it seeped into my subconscious and led me there.
Secrets of Productive People is terrific. It's such a clear-eyed view of why most popular methods don't work. It's also more for people who are wired to think about improving their systems. For me, that makes it harder to recommend simply because most of the people I know are not systemic optimizers in any way.
Secrets of Productive People is terrific. It's such a clear-eyed view of why most popular methods don't work. It's also more for people who are wired to think about improving their systems. For me, that makes it harder to recommend simply because most of the people I know are not systemic optimizers in any way.
September 27, 2023 at 5:33 |
Scott Moehring
Scott Moehring
Scott - are you still rocking that index card setup?
September 27, 2023 at 16:30 |
avrum
avrum
I found this sentence from Mark Forster in a post about the Dreams book.
<Another book which was very influential in my thinking was Robert Fritz's "The Path of Least Resistance". http://www.amazon.co.uk/Path-Least-Resistance-Robert-Fritz/dp/0449903370 >
I own this book, and recently tried to read it again, but could not understand it. I have begun reading the first few pages of the Dreams book.
<Another book which was very influential in my thinking was Robert Fritz's "The Path of Least Resistance". http://www.amazon.co.uk/Path-Least-Resistance-Robert-Fritz/dp/0449903370 >
I own this book, and recently tried to read it again, but could not understand it. I have begun reading the first few pages of the Dreams book.
February 26, 2024 at 3:17 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
February 26, 2024 at 3:18 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
Mark H.
If I remember rightly the key concept in Robert Fritz's book that I used was that of "structural tension". That is the difference between what something is at the moment, and what you want it to be in the future.
To take a small and banal example, if your desk is seriously untidy then there are various ways to bring structural tension to play.
Here's a couple:
1) Score the tidiness of your desk every day using the following scale: 0 is your starting point; 10 is what you want it to look like.
2) Describe in writing what has changed about your desk each day.
You can use those individually or in combination.
Since I don't still have a copy of Fritz's book (and I think it's been re-written since), I can't tell you whether he actually used those examples himself.
If I remember rightly the key concept in Robert Fritz's book that I used was that of "structural tension". That is the difference between what something is at the moment, and what you want it to be in the future.
To take a small and banal example, if your desk is seriously untidy then there are various ways to bring structural tension to play.
Here's a couple:
1) Score the tidiness of your desk every day using the following scale: 0 is your starting point; 10 is what you want it to look like.
2) Describe in writing what has changed about your desk each day.
You can use those individually or in combination.
Since I don't still have a copy of Fritz's book (and I think it's been re-written since), I can't tell you whether he actually used those examples himself.
February 26, 2024 at 13:17 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark Forster,
Thank you for replying.
I have the book "The Path of Least Resistance" in my hand.
I am starting to read the Dreams book, and I am up to page 21, and in discussing the "resistance principle" you refer to your book GED - the chapters on Resistance, and you distinguish between the Push Mode and the Pull Mode, and the use of resistance in the GED is in the Push Mode.
On page 155 of GED in Exercise 2, you recommend ordering the day in the order of resistance starting with what you resist most. However, you have also recommended on the blog the "Resistance Zero System". (Perhaps this is in the Pull Mode?) I have been confused by this, as it seems contradictory, so I haven't been using resistance at all as a principle. I will read further in the Dreams book, and I hope it will help clarify it for me.
I noticed the word "resistance" is used in the title of this book "The Path of Least Resistance" so I wondered if there was a connection. I have quickly scanned the book again, and there seems to be a conceptual framework behind the book, and I haven't grasped it yet. I do understand the structural tension concept, and I see the word "vision" in the book as well as in the Dream book.
Thanks for the illustration of ranking 1-10. I searched the Fritz book but did not find it.
Thank you for replying.
I have the book "The Path of Least Resistance" in my hand.
I am starting to read the Dreams book, and I am up to page 21, and in discussing the "resistance principle" you refer to your book GED - the chapters on Resistance, and you distinguish between the Push Mode and the Pull Mode, and the use of resistance in the GED is in the Push Mode.
On page 155 of GED in Exercise 2, you recommend ordering the day in the order of resistance starting with what you resist most. However, you have also recommended on the blog the "Resistance Zero System". (Perhaps this is in the Pull Mode?) I have been confused by this, as it seems contradictory, so I haven't been using resistance at all as a principle. I will read further in the Dreams book, and I hope it will help clarify it for me.
I noticed the word "resistance" is used in the title of this book "The Path of Least Resistance" so I wondered if there was a connection. I have quickly scanned the book again, and there seems to be a conceptual framework behind the book, and I haven't grasped it yet. I do understand the structural tension concept, and I see the word "vision" in the book as well as in the Dream book.
Thanks for the illustration of ranking 1-10. I searched the Fritz book but did not find it.
February 26, 2024 at 15:33 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
Mark H.
Resistance is one of the chief factors which get in the way of good time management. But paradoxically it is also one of the ways of achieving good time management. I suppose it's a bit like when an engine is started it reaches peak efficiency once it is properly warmed up. But if it overheats it is in danger of giving up altogether.
There are three approaches to resistance. The first is "structured procrastination" in which you find something you are resisting even more than the task you ought to be doing, which makes the task you ought to be doing relatively easy to do.
The second is the "skiing downhill" method, in which you start by doing first the task you are resisting the most, and after that gigantic effort everything else seems easy by comparison.
And the third is the "Resistance Zero" method which relies on the theory that each time a task is scanned, provided there is no compulsion to do it, resistance to doing it decreases - mainly because your mind subconsciously starts to work out how to do it - untll it becomes ready to be done.
I have used all three of these methods in my various systems. I hope this clarifies what may appear as contradictions.
P.S. The 1-10 ranking is not in Fritz's book. It is my interpretation of one way in which his principles could be put into practice.
Resistance is one of the chief factors which get in the way of good time management. But paradoxically it is also one of the ways of achieving good time management. I suppose it's a bit like when an engine is started it reaches peak efficiency once it is properly warmed up. But if it overheats it is in danger of giving up altogether.
There are three approaches to resistance. The first is "structured procrastination" in which you find something you are resisting even more than the task you ought to be doing, which makes the task you ought to be doing relatively easy to do.
The second is the "skiing downhill" method, in which you start by doing first the task you are resisting the most, and after that gigantic effort everything else seems easy by comparison.
And the third is the "Resistance Zero" method which relies on the theory that each time a task is scanned, provided there is no compulsion to do it, resistance to doing it decreases - mainly because your mind subconsciously starts to work out how to do it - untll it becomes ready to be done.
I have used all three of these methods in my various systems. I hope this clarifies what may appear as contradictions.
P.S. The 1-10 ranking is not in Fritz's book. It is my interpretation of one way in which his principles could be put into practice.
February 27, 2024 at 23:41 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Btw John Perry won the 2011 Ig Nobel Prize for Literature for his Theory of Structured Procrastination.
February 28, 2024 at 0:11 |
Mark Forster
Mark Forster
Mark Forster,
Thank you for so much for taking the time to clarify for me your approaches to resistance.
I understand it better now. I have read today some more pages in the Dreams book, and I am searching the blog and forum for more information.
Thank you for so much for taking the time to clarify for me your approaches to resistance.
I understand it better now. I have read today some more pages in the Dreams book, and I am searching the blog and forum for more information.
February 28, 2024 at 3:28 |
Mark H.
Mark H.
Perhaps Mark has answered these questions before - so if somebody else knows, please share your answer(s).
Finally, has Mark appeared on any podcasts? I've only found one: https://www.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/markforster/
And the topic focus (inbox management) - to my mind - would be the least interesting thing that Mark has discussed on his blog/books.